RE: [NetEpic ML] [v5.0] HQ hitting (my proposal) (long)

From: Peter Ramos <primarch_at_...>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:36:26 -0400

Hi!
 
 
Hi,
 
you'd have to excuse me but I think this discussion has gone too far on
"shooting to the HQ" rather than "HQ getting hits". The REAL problem is
not shooting ten dice to HQ, this is unreal and worthless. You shot six,
eight, ten, twelve dice on a group of troops and expect to have some
kills and perhaps get a kill on an HQ. THIS is real. I don't like the
idea of picking HQ units in the middle of other units unless very close
to them or, of course, alone in the open with no troops around and a big
flag saying "SHOOT ME, PLEASE" (If you do that with your HQ, you deserve
to loose them).
 
So far, thre proposals have gone this way:
 
Option one: You can look for an HQ unit and shoot at it if you pass a
roll of X+ (6,9, whatever) if you fail this roll, no chance of hitting
HQ nor the troops around it. Sorry but this can be resumed in: NO
SHOOTING AT HQ allowed. Plus, Your unit is stupid and doesn't shoot the
units around the HQ if cannot spot it. Plus, you can wipe out an entire
IG tactical platoon but one stand which of course will be the SHQ,
because it is an HQ and cannot be shot.
 
Option two: You can shoot at HQ but HQ gets a "sacrifice" save roll of
2+ and if passed another unit gets the hit. Well, might work, but
figures mean that statistically HQ tend to be the last stand. Also quite
unreal. Although I like the main idea for barrage attacks. Nice try. can
be used with aproppiate changes.
 
Option three: You can shoot at HQ if you can distinguish the mini from
the surrounding troopers minis. THAT IS NOT NETEPIC, THAT HAS ANOTHER
NAME. Sorry
 
Option four: -X for the "to hit" roll. This one is tricky, because would
work quite well, but it is not real. This is not WH40K, the "to hit"
roll is not based in shooting ability nor weapon precision (at least on
it's own). It defines both precision and chance of killing a target.
Both a Multi-Melta, a Volcano Cannon or a Thunderer have the same 3+ to
hit, but they have different `"real damage" on infantry. Also unreal
then. An infantry stand armed with bolters at closer range would have a
better chance of spotting (and killing) the HQ.
 
Option five:?
 
 
 
 
MY OPTION:
 
Basic Rules: HQ units can only be shot if they are the closest target of
it's pinning class or have no other unit (of the same pinning class)
closer than 15 cm.
 

Advanced Rules:
 
X.Y.HQ spoting and hitting
 
X.Y.1. Distance from HQ: (25 cm +) No chance of spotting an HQ. None.
Nil. Zero. No way.
Quite clear, I think. You cannot shot weapons directly at HQ. You can
try to get a lucky shot firing at surrounding stands (See X.Y.1.3). Of
course, you can shot at thwem if closer unit of pinning class or alone
(no other troops in a 15 cm radius). HQ units on top of objectives are
VALID targets.
 
So they function like Eldar scouts, if they are more than 25cm away from
the firing unit you can't EVER shoot at them. Is that correct?
 
    X.Y.1.1. Exception: Snipers. Specific rules for them.
 
    X.Y.1.2. Special Case: Barrage. I always considered barrage doesn't
need to be placed on top of a model, but try to catch as many models as
you can. Ok, we got an HQ unit under it. If the HQ is part of a
detachment, add stands still alive outside from the barrage, plus any
other stands (not under the barrage, of course) at 6 cm (Optional:
10 cm) or less of the HQ. Throw a dice and add number of stands, on a
roll of 7+ the HQ was covered by another stand on the last instant and a
randomly chosen stand is hit instead.
    (Optional) A roll of 1 always means the HQ was hit. Bad luck.
 
Why not simplify it by rolling a d6, if you roll "x" number or more it's
in the blast zone.
 
Side Note 1: Note that an HQ with few units around it, is very
vulnerable to barrage fire (like real life (TM)) and an HQ surrounded by
a lot of units is quite difficult to be caught under the barrage.
 
    X.Y.1.3. Lucky Shot: When shooting a unit cointaining an HQ you can
ask for a lucky shot.You can also ask for it if there's an HQ at less
than 6 cm. (opt: 10cm) of targetted unit, but then you have to lose one
atack die. If a unit containing an HQ, or a unit with an HQ at less than
6 cm is shot, throw a dice for each hit. Substract one to the result of
each die for each stand present in the unit or at less than 6 cm (Opt:
10 cm) if it's from other units; on a roll of 4+ you got a lucky shot
and the HQ was hit! otherwise a normal stand was hit Dice is throwed
simultaneously.
 
Pretty complex, but I can't thin any way to simplify it.
 
Side Note 2: Note that the reasoning is similar than that of S.N. 1. An
HQ with few troopers will be more vulnerable to a curtain of a fire,
than another one heavy guarded with other units
 
Side Note 3: Here's the chance to have a lucky hit depending on the
surrounding units.
 
Surrounding units To hit HQ %
1 4+ 50% (1/2)
2 5+ 33% (1/3)
3 6+ 16% (1/6)
4 7+ 8,3% (1/12)
5 8+ 5,5% (1/18)
6 9+ 2,8% (1/36)
7 10+ 1,4% (1/72)
...
 
Note that beyond 2 units chances decrease drastically in favour of HQ
units. You want a Lucky Shot, you have to shoot a lot. I think that
protecting a bit more HQ units for game balance is reasonable
    
X.Y.2 Distance from HQ: (25 cm -) You are close to them. You can almost
distinguish their leaders, though you are not quite sure... You'll have
to clear a bit the zone before perhaps...
 
You can shoot directly at the HQ, BUT apply the previous cover rule for
barrages (X.Y.1.2) (+1 for alive trooper in detachment, +1 for other
trooper at 6cm or less from HQ). Dice is throwed sequentially. Thus, you
have the option of clearing things up before going for their bosses.
Unfortunately, going for the leader instead than for the whole group
means the following: one attack dice is lost when firing for the HQ and
any further shots once the HQ is dead are lost.
 
    X.Y.2.1. Barrages: Shooting a barrage from less than 25 cm is quite
deadly, specially when you know exactly where you are shooting. A
barrage fired from less than 25 cm can be shot at an HQ DIRECTLY
if on FF orders (You saw them coming and you are close enough to spot
where is their HQ, at least with a small error). Otherwise, follow
same rules as for X.Y.1.2.
 
Side Note 4: Note that the difference of Barrage and other weapons is
that with non-barrage you need to know the exact position of the unit to
fire at. With barrage you only need to know it with an error of some
dozens of meters, which is quite reasonable at those distances with
enough time to spot (Thus FF).
 
    X.Y.2.2. Indirect Barrages: Aply X.Y.1.2 even if observer is closer
than 25 cm. (Optional)
 
I don't disagree with your logical, but HQ targeting becomes a rule set
onto themselves with all these rules!
 
Side Note 5: Game Balance reasons. Discussion welcomed as always.
 
What do you think? Some figures (like proximity of covering units)
should be tested but I think is a good system because, HQ units are
mostly impossible to target at long range, while still reasonably
vulnerable whereas at close range they are far more vulnerable, which is
balanced by the fact that closing to them should be dangerous. Please
note that I thought about it a lot, there's no chance to abuse with IG
or orks. If they go only for HQ they have to dedicate a lot of points on
it and it won't be worth it. It's far more useful trying to kill some
troops before attacking the SHQ (which is also more Real Life(TM)).
 
Quite frankly I'm stuck on this problem. You may be right that only
something this detail will solve the problems, but I wonder if there is
still a simpler way out.
 
Peter
 
Received on Fri Apr 26 2002 - 18:36:26 UTC