I have to agree, if a building falls on your head you
are going to be out of the game. Perhaps not dead
(although it is very likely), but any survivors are
going to need several hours at least to dig themselves
out. So in that sense they have been effectively
removed from the game, and are casualties. In a
campaign they might return, but for that particular
game they are down and out.
Steve
--- "Millett, George"
<George.Millett_at_...> wrote: > Accepting
that the field would keep him alive it
> still doesn't feel right
> that some one can have a large building land on his
> head, push all the
> rubble away, dust him self off and continue on his
> merry way.
>
> Even if he survives it is going to need some time
> and specialised machinery
> to get them out alive which is not really going to
> be risked in a combat
> situation.
>
> G
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Ramos [mailto:primarch_at_...]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 8:49 PM
> To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [NetEpic ML] [v5.0] Structures (long)
>
>
> Hi!
>
> Note that most of the time your right. Its just
> those few units with
> powerful fields that we are considering. If anyone
> would get out alive
> it would be one with a special field.
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Millett, George
> [mailto:George.Millett_at_...]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:10 AM
> To: 'netepic_at_yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [NetEpic ML] [v5.0] Structures (long)
>
> But with a vechile the unit can easily rip his way
> out.
>
> Not so easy to do if a building has landed on your
> head.
>
> G
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Ramos [mailto:primarch_at_...]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 5:33 PM
> To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [NetEpic ML] [v5.0] Structures (long)
>
>
> Hi!
>
> <grin> works for me. I can go with all this.
>
> As for units with fixed saves and collapsing
> buildings, I'd give them a
> save. We give it to them for destroyed transports
> anyway, seems
> consistent to do so in this case.
>
> If most agree we can call this one a day and move to
> the final
> topic-fliers.
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jarreas Underwood
> [mailto:jarreas_at_...]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:42 AM
> To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [NetEpic ML] [v5.0] Structures (long)
>
> I dunno - I've been reading some of the more receint
> posts and I'm going
> to
> modify my earlier suggestions a little, and make
> things a bit more
> complex
> in favor of having the same rules for all
> structures. Yes, I'm
> overriding
> my objection to damage counters in favor of fewer
> rules to remember.
> Let's
> see how it works.
>
> Keep in mind that you have to allow for some
> stylized definitions here -
> arguements based on specific units will almost
> always have exceptions.
> I've
> tried to keep this in mind, using "How would *this*
> catagory work
> against
> *that* catagory?," instead of "How would a tank work
> against barbed
> wire?"
> Oh - and anytime I mention infantry stands I'm
> talking about everything
> in
> the infantry pinning-class catagory, which includes
> light artillery.
>
>
> Structures come in three catagories:
> 1) Light Construction: Things that are weak,
> delicate, poorly
> constructed
> or have obvious weak points, like suspension
> bridges. Light buildings
> tend
> to be a good deal taller than anything else.
>
> 2) Standard Construction: Your everyday 40k-era
> steel & concrete
> building.
> They're not built for combat but will serve rather
> nicely - most Cold
> War-era Soviet construction demonstrates this rather
> nicely.
>
> 3) Fortifications: Things that are built to
> withstand combat-level
> damage
> - strongholds, bunkers & the like.
>
>
> Structures have a number of characteristics:
> 1) Armor Save: how resistant it is to damage.
> Structures always save on
> 2d6.
> Light: 6+
> Standard: 4+
> Fort: 2+
>
> 2) Protect Things Inside: Things inside are harder
> to hit than things
> outside. The structure also grants you a CAF bonus
> to all units inside a
> building - attacking or defending. Template weapons
> will auto-hit the
> building but you have to roll to hit units inside
> with the appropriate
> modifier.
> Light: -1 on your To-Hit roll and +1 CAF
> Standard: -2 / +2
> Fort: -3 / +3
>
> +++++ I'm getting rid of the additional armor save
> to prevent double
> indemnity ("What do you mean they're both harder to
> hit *and* they get
> another save!?"). If you hit you hit - units get
> their normal armor save
> and that's it. A -3 penalty is bad enough: *yes*
> it's tough to hit
> troops
> inside a pillbox, but if you *do* hit 'em, they're
> dead. I'll provide
> math
> to support this if anyone wants to see it.
>
>
> 3) Resistant To Damage: If you aim at a building
> (as opposed to units
> inside), you automaticly hit. However, non-artillery
> weapons can't hurt
> buildings. Titan template weapons and anything
> listed as "Damages
> Buildings" can. If you Close-Assault a building, you
> hit and it must
> make
> it's armor save at a -2 penalty. You count as
> "immobilized," though,
> meaning you don't get the normal 2d6 CAF roll if
> anyone else tries to
> kill
> you in Close Combat - so you'll probably die before
> you can bring the
> building down.
>
> +++++ Note: Engineers have a special ability that'll
> make them more
> effective against buildings and minefields. We can
> tackle that in the
> army
> lists.
>
>
> 4) Structural Integrity: How many times you have to
> hit it before it
> falls
> down. Every time a structure fails an armor save,
> give it an SI counter.
> In
> the end phase roll a d6 - if it's equal or less than
> the number of SI
> counters, the building falls down. If a structure
> collapses then all
> units
> inside are destroyed with no save.
> Light: 1
> Standard: 2
> Fort: 3
>
> +++++ I'd give 'em more points, but a Fort has a 2+
> save already. More
> SI
> point's make 'em unkillable to the point of not
> worth shooting at. Add a
> note that players can agree that scenario-specific
> buildings can have
> more
> points, but that should be up to the players and not
> part of the rules.
>
>
> Now we've got structure-specific rules:
>
> Entering / exiting a structure: I propose the same
> 5cm cost that applies
> to
> entering & exiting a transport. That makes it quite
> worthwhile to go
> around
> a building than straight through, which is the
> situation we have now.
>
> Road: Light construction. No penalty to enter or
> exit, the CAF and
> To-Hit
> modifiers don't apply and you're at +1 to-be-hit
> while on the road. For
> every 5 cm you move on a road you can move 1 more (a
> 20% bonus) - this
> makes more sense to me than a flat bonus.
>
> Barricades & Trenches: Light or Standard
> construction (depending on the
> scenario) and destroyed by weapon area-of-effect.
> They are automaticly
> destroyed by deathrollers, Gorgon blades, passing
> Titan / Praetorians
> and
> Super-Heavies - anything that scours the ground.
> Infantry, cavalry &
> vehicles must be on Advance orders to move through
> them, while anything
> bigger (and anything in the air) can ignore them.
> Does not block LOS.
> Barricades: This covers razorwire, mutated
> thornbushes, burning
> tar pits
> and other things that prevent you from running fast.
> They don't give any
> to-be-hit or CAF modifiers.
> Trench: A "trench" model includes small bunkers,
> wire barricades
> and
> tank traps as well as actual trenches. They hold 5
> infantry stands per
> 10
> cm piece and grant the to-be-hit and CAF modifiers.
>
> Minefield: This isn't really a structure but it fits
> into this section
> of
> the rules anyway. The standard rules are fine: Any
> unit that crosses a
> minefield is hit on a 4+ with a -2 modifier. Titans
> / Praetorians &
> Super-Heavies are attacked d6 times.
>
> Bunker: Fortification but might be Standard for
> PDF-quality armies.
> Holds 2
> infantry stands. Bunkers hold infantry only -
> something built to hold
> tanks
> or heavy artillery is called an emplacement.
>
> Emplacement: Fortification. Holds 2 infantry, 2
> cavalry/walkers or 1
> vehicle.
>
> Stronghold: Fortification. Holds 4-6 infantry
> stands. They should have a
> few range-25 bolters (like most Super-Heavies), and
> may mount one
> non-plasma Titan weapon (pay for it separately).
> Strongholds with plasma
> generators should be more expensive, may mount
> plasma weapons and blow
> up
> when destroyed (2d6 radius sort of thing).
>
>
> How's that for comprehensive structure rules?
>
> One question I've got, regardless of what rules we
> go with: Should units
> with a fixed save be allowed to use it if the
> building collapses on
> them?
> -Yar
>
>
>
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Received on Thu May 02 2002 - 13:45:10 UTC