Re: [v5.0] Imperial revision: marines part II

From: antichrist666it <seimejote_at_...>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 17:11:48 -0000

Comments below...

--- In netepic_at_y..., <jyrki.saari_at_n...> wrote:
> Special Units
>
> HQ Units
> Headquarter units command Space Marine companies. Any Imperial
formation (troop stands or vehicles) receive a +1 to morale checks if
they are within 10cm of the Space Marine command units.
> Models: Commander and Tactical Marine models on the GW Space Marine
sprue.
>
> ->Why don't we just call these captains? Otherwise, no change.

Agree. =)

> Assault Company HQ Units
> Space Marine Assault troops all have backpacks that enable them to
move faster and skim above terrain features and man-made obstacles.
SM Assault Company HQ units also have jump-packs to keep pace with
the units they command. All other abilities remain the same with
standard SM HQ units.
> Models: Commander and Assault Marine models on the GW Space Marine
sprue.
>
> -> See above.

Agree.

>
> Terminator HQ Units
> Officers of Terminator Companies wear Tactical Dreadnought Armor
like their troops and carry Terminator Storm Bolters. The command
abilities remain the same with standard SM HQ units.
> Models: Terminator models on the GW Space Marine sprue.
>
> ->A nitpick: the first company is commanded by the lieutenant
commander of the chapter. Should we mention this somehow?

The more fluff, the better! :P

>
> Space Marine Commander
> This unit represents the commander of the Space Marine chapter and
his close aides. Due to the vast tactical experience accumulated by
the Commander a player can select one of two special abilities (one
at a time, once per turn):
>
> Ø Forced March: All Imperial units within 10cm of the commander
receive a +5 cm to the base move (+10 cm if the unit has Charge
Orders).
> Ø Tactical Genius: All unmoved Imperial units within 10cm may shift
their given orders one "category" in either direction along the
following progression:
>
> Charge--Advance--First Fire
>
> Example: If a nearby unit is on Advance Orders, the unit may shift
to either First Fire or Charge Orders (units on Charge orders and
First Fire orders, of course, can only shift in one direction, thus
Charge does not wrap around to First Fire).
>
> As with all command units, all Imperial units within 10cm of this
unit add +1 to morale tests.
> Models: Commander and Tactical Marine models on the GW Space Marine
sprue.
>
> ->Even though it is self evident I suggest we specify that only one
of these may be present in any given battle. Some players are known
of doing strange things. And we should call him Chapter Master.

Agree. Something about their master-crafted equipment (if you want to
give them any fixed save)?

> Chaplains
> Chaplains are the religious leaders of the Space Marine forces as
well as formidable warriors due to their unshakable determinism. With
the courage inspired by their presence, all Imperial troops within
10cm of the Chaplain stand may add +1 to its close combat score. The
bonus applies to all troop stands, bikes and models on horseback
(such as Imperial Roughrider).
> Models: Chaplain and Tactical Marine models on the GW Space Marine
sprue. Chaplains wear black armor regardless of the chapter.
>
> ->No change.

Something about their Rosarius (if you want to give them the 6+ fixed
save)?

>
> Medics
> Space Marine Medics are the Healers of the chapter who carry
sophisticated medical equipment to help the wounded soldiers. Any
Imperial Troops within 10cm of a medic receives a 5+ save in addition
to any normal save the model has. Only troop stands, bikes, and
riders may receive this benefit, vehicles may not gain this addition
save. No detachment may benefit from more than one Medic's ability at
a given time. That is, a model can have only one additional save due
to the Medic being within 10cm.
> Models: Medic and Tactical Marine models on the GW Space Marine
sprue. Medics wear white armor regardless of their chapters.
>
> ->Since the Medic's ability is referred as an additional saving
throw, it should be stated that this save is not modifiable. Also,
some time ago it was discussed about the viability of this ability in
face of Vortex missiles and Warp Hunters, since something sucked into
warp isn't going to be saved by first aid. I'll generate a poll about
this.

Cut the description of the ability. State simply they have the Medic
skill, which will be detailed in the Core Rules...

...and call them APOTHECARIES!!!

>
> Tech-Marines
> Tech-Marines are the other class of Healers of the Space Marine
Chapters. They are trained by the Adeptus Mechanicus in the workings
of the Imperial machines. All Imperial vehicles - except Titans and
Praetorians that are too large to be repaired quickly on the
battlefield - within 10cm of the Tech-Marine stand gains 5+ save in
addition to their normal save. A model may only benefit once
regardless of the number of Tech-Marines (or other Imperial Healers)
within range, thus overlap and multiple saves are not allowed.
> Models: Tech-Marine and Tactical Marine models on the GW Space
Marine sprue. Tech-Marines wear red armor.
>
> ->See above: exchange "Medic" for "Techmarine".

As above, they will have the Mechanic skill.

> Legion of the Damned*
> These mysterious troops, clad in marine armor, but painted as
burning skeletons, occasionally come to the aid of Space Marine
forces. They are a truly horrifying sight on the battlefield,
fighting with fierce abandon, outpacing even their fellow marines.
There are only a few units of these fearsome shadow warriors; so only
one Legion special card may be fielded in any given Space Marine
force.
> These troops are so terrifying that any unit they enter into close
combat with must make morale check or go on Fall Back orders.
Additionally, enemy troops must succeed in a Morale check if they
wish to try and enter close combat with a Legion stand.
> Models: Use Tactical Marine models from the GW Space Marine sprue.
>
> ->No change.

I've a Citadel Journal with some nifty rules about them... will post
later... when I found it! :P

>
> Grey Knights
> Grey Knights are the Marine Chapter whose sole purpose is to
confront and destroy Chaos. Unlike regular units these may not be
placed on the tabletop at the start of the game. The Grey Knights may
be teleported to any location chosen by the player on the tabletop as
a detachment move in any moving phase. Once the location to teleport
to is selected roll the scatter dice and 2D6 (as you would for an
indirect barrage) to determine the exact arrival point of the Grey
Knight detachment. The remaining stands are positioned within unit
coherency of the first stand placed (6 cm). Each Grey Knight stand
receives a psychic save versus non-physical psychic attacks (4+ on
D6). This unit may only be brought to a battle if the opponent is
Chaos (and no other). Grey Knights are not subject to morale checks
required by charging Greater Daemons and may fire upon Daemons
normally. The Grey Knights close ombat attacks are considered psychic
attacks and cannot be saved using chaos cards (see chaos rules for
more information on chaos cards). Its shooting attacks are considered
physical psychic attacks.
> Models: Terminator models on the GW Space Marine sprue. Grey
Knights always have silver or bronze colored armor.
>
> ->So what orders do the Grey Knights have when they're teleported
in? I'd say that the player can choose between advance and charge and
that the same applies to teleporting regular terminators as well.
Also, it should be explicitly stated that Grey Knights can be taken
by any Imperial force facing chaos, not just marines.

As above, state simply that they must be teleported to the
battlefield. Details of teleporting units should be in the Core
Rules...

> Inquisitors
> These are the watchdogs of the Imperium, always on the alert to
punish those that stay from Imperial Doctrine and destroy those
tainted by Chaos. Inquisitors count as command units and therefore
never need to be given orders. Due to the fear (or inspiration) they
instill, all Imperial troops within 25cm of the Inquisitor are immune
to morale checks. Also Inquisitors possess a psychic saving throw
versus non-physical psychic attacks (4+ on D6). Due to cutting edge
technological devices an Inquisitor receives a fixed save of 4+ or
more on a D6. Inquisitors are not subject to morale checks required
by charging Greater Daemons and may fire upon Daemons normally.
> Models: Chaplain or any other Special Marine models on the GW Space
Marine sprue.
>
> ->Remove the "or more" in the fixed save sentence. Otherwise no
change.

Remove references about Greater Daemons and state simply they have
the Daemon Hunter skill (detailed in the Core Rules)...

>
> Ordo Malleus Inquisitor*
> The Ordo Malleus Inquisitor is specially trained in the ways and
weaknesses of Chaos. These die-hard servants of the Emperor are armed
with rare psych-out weaponry, made from the metabolic wastes of the
Emperor himself. Armored in elaborate power armor, with electoos
making esoteric patterns on their bodies, the Ordo Malleus
Inquisitors go forth to cleanse the galaxy.
> The Ordo Malleus Inquisitor is a Command Unit. It may only be taken
when the Imperial force it is supporting faces Chaos. The stats
listed below for the Psycannon are for fire against normal troops.
Against Daemonic troops, it has a Save Modifier of -2 and such units
damaged by the Psycannon require 2 Chaos Cards to save instead of the
normal 1. Additionally, Daemons killed by the Inquisitor in close
combat may not use Chaos cards to save themselves. Unlike a normal
Inquisitor, Ordo Malleus Inquisitors in no way boost the morale of
nearby troops.
> Models: Same as above.
>
> ->No change.

They should be Daemon Hunters too.

>
> Special Units in Close Combat
> Special units cannot use their non-combat abilities for that phase
if involved in Close Combat. We can hardly expect a Medic to operate
in the field while fighting hand-to-hand against a Minotaur. It goes
for Tech-marines, Rune Priests and such, but not for the Chaplains,
for their ability is combat related.

Remove from here and place in the Core Rules.

>
> Stat Summary:
>
> HQ
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 6+
> CAF: +4
> Weapons: Bolt pistols
> Range: 25cm
> Att. D: 2
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: 0
> Notes: Imperial troops within 10cm add +1 to morale, HQ Unit, Elite.

Weapons: Bolt Pistol/Chainsword

> Assault HQ
> Move: 15 cm
> Save: 6+
> CAF: +4
> Weapons: Bolt pistols
> Range: 25cm
> Att. D: 2
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: 0
> Notes: Jump Packs, Imperial troops within 10 cm add +1 to morale,
HQ, Elite.

Weapons: Bolt Pistol/Chainsword

>
> Terminator HQ
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 5+*
> CAF: +7
> Weapons: Storm Bolters
> Range: 35cm
> Att. D: 2
> To Hit: 4+
> TSM: -1
> Notes: Imperial troops within 10cm add +1 to morale, HQ Unit, Elite.

Weapons: Storm Bolter/Power Fist (it's just me...)

>
> Space Marine Commander
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 6+
> CAF: +5
> Weapons: Various
> Range: 50cm
> Att. D: 2
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: -1
> Notes: HQ Unit, Imperial troops within 10cm add +1 to Morale tests,
special abilities, Elite.
>
> -> IMO the chapter master should have better save. After all, he
has access to all kinds of interesting force field thingies.

Weapons: Master-crafted Bolter (the -1 TSM... :P)
Agree. I propose 5+ fixed.

>
> Librarian
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 6+
> CAF: +4
> Weapons: Bolt pistols
> Range: 25cm
> Att. D: 1
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: 0
> Notes: HQ Unit, Elite.

Weapons: Bolt Pistol/Chainsword
Question: Should this unit be Elite? IMHO, not.

> Chaplain
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 6+
> CAF: +4
> Weapons: Bolt pistols & Various
> Range: 25cm
> Att. D: 2
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: 0
> Notes: Imperial troops within 10cm +1 to CAF, HQ Unit, Elite.
>
> -> As the Chaplain wears a rosarius shouldn't his save be
unmodified?

Agree, 6+ fixed.
Weapons: Bolt Pistol/Crozius Arcanum (Various?!?)

>
> Medic
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 6+
> CAF: +2
> Weapons: Bolt pistols
> Range: 25cm
> Att. D: 1
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: 0
> Notes: Imperial troops within 10cm save on 5+, HQ Unit, Elite.

APOTHECARY
Weapons: Bolt Pistol/Chainsword
Notes: Medic, HQ Unit.
IMHO, this unit shouldn't be Elite too.
 
> Tech Marine
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 6+
> CAF: +2
> Weapons: Bolt pistols
> Range: 25cm
> Att. D: 1
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: 0
> Notes: Imperial vehicles within 10cm save on 5+, HQ Unit, Elite.

Weapons: Bolt Pistol/Chainsword
Notes: Mechanic, HQ Unit, Elite.
IMHO, this unit shouldn't be Elite too.

> SM Forward Observer*
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 6+
> CAF: +2
> Weapons: Bolt pistols
> Range: 25cm
> Att. D: 1
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: 0
> Notes: Special rules, HQ Unit.

Weapons: Bolt Pistol/Chainsword

> Legion of the Damned
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 6+
> CAF: +4
> Weapons: Bolters
> Range: 50 cm
> Att. D: 1
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: 0
> Notes: Opponents take morale check before CC, Elite.

I'll found that journal...

> Grey Knight
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 5+*
> CAF: +6
> Weapons: Various
> Range: 35 cm
> Att. D: 2
> To Hit: 4+
> TSM: -1
> Notes: Psychic save of 4+, Special rules, Elite.

Weapons: Nemesis Force Halberds
Notes: Elite, Teleported, 4+ Psychic save, Special rules.

> Inquisitor
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 4+ fixed
> CAF: +6
> Weapons: Various
> Range: 35 cm
> Att. D: 2
> To Hit: 4+
> TSM: -1
> Notes: Psychic save of 4+, Imperial units within 25 cm immune to
morale tests, HQ unit, Elite.

Weapons: Storm Bolter
Notes: 4+ Psychic save, Imperial units within 25 cm immune to morale
tests, HQ unit, Daemon Hunter, Elite.

>
> Ordo Malleus Inquisitor
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 4+ fixed
> CAF: +6
> Weapons: Psycannon
> Range: 50 cm
> Att. D: 1
> To Hit: 4+
> TSM: 0
> Notes: -2 TSM Against Daemons, Psychic saves of 4+, Elite, HQ Unit.
Special rules.

Add Daemon Hunter to notes.

>
> *Save modifiable to 6+ but no further.
>
> That's all for now. Next stop: vehicles but in the meantime comment
away. The participation so far has been excellent.
>
> Jyrki Saari
>
> -There is no such thing as free lunch because eating takes time and
time is money.
Received on Fri May 10 2002 - 17:11:48 UTC