[NetEpic ML] Re: The Glory Days of SM/TL

From: Damian Miller <damianmiller_at_...>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 20:18:15 -0600

    Hi Gamers,
        Kudos to Mr. Evans,
                you have hit on the crux of a lot problems with this game,
Tactics, anybody can field a bunch of super troopers and win against some
of the usual armies, but a true tactitian can win with limited resources.
In most games i play marines with little or no titan support and win against
titans and heavy tanks with lowly land raiders, and troppies. Please make
more dissertations on this subject and if anyone wants tactics ideas for
marines, squats, and orks, drop me a line. no guts, no green

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Evans <brian.a.evans_at_...>
To: <netepic_at_egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 6:32 PM
Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: The Glory Days of SM/TL

> > > Never liked the Barrage Missle, you were too dependant on a single die
> > roll
> > > for your number of templates. I shy away from all or nothing weapons.
> > Plus
> > > anyone who uses the maximum coherency distance can really reduce
> > > damage, even from many templates.
> >
> > Again I admire your adherence to the spirit of the game, but many just
> bring
> > firea and forger weapons due to their high pay off.
> I find that the people who have trouble with Strategic thinking,
> over-emphasize the Tactical aspects (ex. Army Design) . Most of us can
> probably spot an army designed for power gaming. These armies are
> to overwhelm the enemy in tactical situations, like a Super Titan designed
> for a very narrowly defined role. These people like to choose the
> super-power items that are all or nothing affairs. If these chancy items
> work, he will generally have a good chance at victory, even though he may
> make strategic mistakes. If they don't work, he can blame his loss on
> 'Luck.' Either way, he will not learn from his strategic mistakes.
> The problem these people usually have is they don't really think how this
> Super Titan fits into their over all army or into their over all Army
> Each unit acts as a very distinct entity and no heed is paid to how the
> different units might be able to cooperate or affect each other. If I can
> keep this Super Titan from fulfilling its very specific role, I can
> defeat his army, even though I am fielding what he would consider to be an
> inferior army. I just try to use mine better. :-)
> > Thats exactly it, flyers in mid-air? hovering during combat? Also rules
> > problems crop up, can you close combat them? Can jump pack troops do it?
> See
> > what I mean too many variables no explanations. We can still integrate
> them
> > into combat phase but we need to clarify many things, if they have
> movement
> > they should have really large ones (no modification for charge orders).
> Also
> > they should be able to come from table sides (if not rear). Well we'll
> > doubt talk about this later.
> Epic never really had any true fliers. Almost all flying units were
> just glorified skimmers (Squat GyroCopters, OverLord Air Ships). **We
> probably shouldn't compare 40K fliers to real world Jets, but to real
> Helicopters.** Everything but the DoomWings/DoomLord could hover, right?
> These two units were the only things that were forced to make a minimum
> each turn I believe. Everything else we can imagine works like a Huey
> helicopter. They have 2-3 times the speed of a Tank, so they are still
> fast. The size of an Epic battlefield we can say is on too large a scale
> allow units to make Hit-and-Run strafing attacks. Thus all Epic flying
> units will operate like a normal model and should be on the table top at
> times, it just has an above average speed. A normal tank has a speed of
> 25cm while the ThunderHawk GunShip has a 60cm speed.
> I suggest not allowing anything Flying High to be attacked in close combat
> as a basic rule. Only units specifically allowed to attack high fliers
> (DoomWings) would be allowed to. Anything that uses the skimmer rules can
> close combat fliers. I have always thought Epic Close Combat simulates
> close range weapons fire as well as actual physical combat. Can you
> what it would be like to fly a Huey helicopter into a Landing Zone and
> jump pack equipped VC attacking you? Anyone can attack skimmers in close
> combat, flyers may not be flying high, they must come down to the
> battlefield level.
> Flyers pin flyers, skimmers, normal troops and vehicles.
> Skimmers pin skimmers, normal troops and vehicles
> Normal troops and vehicles only pin normal troops and vehicles
> Super Heavies and Titans follow the normal rules.
> > > Yes, by the time you got to the 30th stand you would be rolling (31d6
> 0
> > > CAF) against the Warlord's (2d6 + 14 CAF). It is usually only
> to
> > > get about 6 - 8 or so infantry into close combat with a Warlord
> > > Titan Legions required infantry/tanks to actually contact the Titan's
> legs
> > > instead of the base. Even the 8th Imperial Guardsmen would have only
> > about
> > > even chances of doing damage against the Titan. But the Guard were
> > assured
> > > of taking some horrible damage before they got enought die against the
> > > Warlord's +14 CAF.
> >
> > Actually if it were that costly I would mind, but on average the 7th or
> 8th
> > stand would bring it down, that made titans to vulnerable. To simplify
> > things I would go back to the origianl scheme (where vehicles and
> > could engage it, BUT (and a big one) extra d6 for close combat would
> be
> > added for every THREE stands that is after the first attacker no extra
> dice
> > until the fourth guy is reach and so on, makes it viable but extremely
> > costly, the cost invested to cost gained is comparable.
> Let's assume average rolls on the d6's. Our original 2d6 would cancel
> other out, so we just have to compare the Guard's bonus d6 against the +14
> CAF. For each d6 you roll you take, 3.5 is the average result. The 5th
> stand would garner you a bonus 4d6, and gives you an average result of
> which is a draw against the +14 CAF of the Titan. The 6th stand of Guard
> should start beating the Titan. Since the Guard must still roll on the
> Titan damage table, just winning, will not insure the Titan's destruction.
> Let's look at the Warlord's damage table.
> Reactor will explode and kill your troops, probably a bad choice.
> Legs only have a 1/6 chance of killing the Titan.
> Carapace only has a 1/6 chance of killing the Titan.
> Head has a 2/6 chance of killing the Titan.
> Since the Head is the best choice, you will need to get three hits on the
> titan before the Titan will PROBABLY die. This is where I got the eight
> stands from. The 6th stand should start winning, and it will take three
> hits before I will feel comfortable that the Titan's death will occur.
> If you leave your Titan unsupported it should be vulnerable. If you have
> couple of detachments screening your Titan, it is unlikely that the enemy
> will be able to attack your Titan en'mass. You would at least get one
> turn's notice because your opponent would be forced to attack the
> troops before he could get to the Titan. You could then take some
> preventive actions to protect your Titan during this turn and the next,
> since even if they charge your titan, you will not be pinned by normal
> infantry and can just move away.
> I don't think of my Titans as stand alone weapons. They are just a part
> my battle plan. I always screen the Titan with a mass of cheap troops,
> Imperial Guard Companies. If the enemy wants to get through this screen,
> they will have to destroy around 35 miniatures. By the time they do this,
> their close combat force should be badly shot up, plus I will have had
> to race more troops to the defense of my Titan, if I feel his survival is
> that important. If the enemy spends this much time and effort trying to
> destroy my Titan and his escorts, the rest of my army will have captured
> most of the objectives, and I can win the game even if the Titan has been
> killed.
> Thanks,
> Brian A. Evans
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Received on Wed Dec 22 1999 - 02:18:15 UTC

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