[NetEpic ML] Re: Let the Revision begin!!

From: Warprat <warprat_at_...>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:09:35 -0800

Hi Brian!

As usual I agree with most of your ideas, and this bit is VERY well
written. Bravo!

You just don't get it. Close combat isn't limited to actual physical
combat. It involves short ranged shooting, grenades, in addition to
swords and knives. Vehicles also bring other elements into close
combat, they can try to ram or crush their opponents under their treads.

The reason units are pinned in close combat is because they would make
themselves too vulnerable to attack if they tried to withdraw from their
enemy. It is much better to try and destroy the enemy in this close
range environment than it would be to turn tail and run away. Turning
your back to the enemy generally means that they don't have to worry
about your weapons, they don't have to waste time defending themselves,
and they have the benefit of attacking your weakest armor. The enemy
gets a triple benefit when you turn and run. Pinning simulates the fact
that you are faced with an immediate threat that must be eliminated
before you can do anything else. If you don't eliminate the enemy, you
will be killed or captured. If you run away, the enemy will simply be
able to gun you down. Your only realistic choice is to eliminate the
enemy first. Close combat will continue until there is a clear victor.

However, I like the Idea of most infantry not being able to pin tanks.
Here are my revised Pinning Rules, for comment:

(Warprat mounts Soapbox) ;)

Infantry should have no problem pinning soft vehicles/infantry like
Buggies, bikes, Rough Riders, light artillery, Wartraks, Sentinels (the
driver is exposed), Marines, Nobz, Warwalkers, Trolls, Pink Horrors,
Genestealers, Ogryns, Termagants, Close Assault Terminators etc...(Units
with a saving throw of 6 or less, or no ranged attack).
Regular Terminators (desribed as having tank armor), and other infantry
type units, like Dreadnoughts, Darkreapers, Exarchs, Zoats, should be
included in the armored vehicles section, as these units are too tough
for even tanks to move past. (Units with armor saving throws of 5+, and
a ranged attack). This would also help to make these units Great again.
Please don't get me wrong, I think infantry are GREAT tank busters when
they can ambush vehicles, or when tanks engage them. I just don't think
they should be able to pin a tank, or a terminator.

1. Titans/Praetorians.
2. Super Heavy Vehicles/Knights
3. Heavy armored units. (Armor save of 5+ and ranged attack)
4. Unarmored or lightly armored units/no ranged attack.
5. Skimmers: A) Super Heavy.
             B) Heavy Armor.
             C) Light Armor.
Some Examples:
1) A Lightly Armored Skimmer (like an Elder Jetbike), could not PIN a
Heavy Armored Unit (like a Leman Russ Tank). Nor would the Leman Russ
Tank be able to PIN an Eldar Jet Bike, because the bike is a Skimmer.

2) A Heavily Armored Unit that is a Skimmer, such as a Falcon Grav-Tank,
could PIN any other Heavily Arrmored Unit, like a Leman Russ Tank. The
Leman Russ is unable to PIN the Falcon Grav-Tank, because it is a

3) A Basilisk is attacked by Assualt Marines. It is not PINNED, if it
still has orders to move, it can move away. If it has orders to First
Fire, or has already moved, it may be engaged by the Assault Marines in
Close Combat.

4) A Marine Landspeeder is attacked by a Eldar Tempest Super Heavy Grav
Tank. It is PINNED. The larger size, combined with the Skimmer
ability, enable the Tempest to pin.

5) A Imperial Guard Super Heavy Tank attacks a Marine Landspeeder.
The Landspeeder is not PINNED, because the Marine Landspeeder is a

6) An Eldar Swooping Hawk attacks a Marine Assault stand. Both are
PINNED. Both are equal in size, and are both Skimmers.

Note: Using the above changes would NOT affect the classic Marine
combined arms approach to pinning.
1) Rhino pins enemy tank.
2) Infantry attack tank.
3) Rhino is destroyed.
4) Enemy tank is destroyed.
5) Infantry survive.

Lightly armored units can still engage the Heavies, without Heavy
Armored help, by moving second, (the ambush). With the Phased Movement
system this is not a big problem, usually.
I know that this would have a big affect on Chaos units like Trolls and
Minataurs etc.. but I really can't see how these units could even
possibly pin a heavily armored unit. These units are listed as having no
weapons, but of course they carry axes, etc... I CAN see them ambushing
a tank, and beating the HELL out of it.

(Warprat steps down from the Soapbox) ;)

Since by your rules, tanks are not pinned by infantry anymore, tanks can
drive right though infantry units. I think I will have my Rhinos drive
right through your infantry and the infantry inside the Rhinos will
charge any artillery that is behind the screening infantry.
This thought caused me a little bit of concern, shortly after I posted
my Revised Pinning Rules idea. But of course, any unit that moves
within 1cm (Zone of Control?) of another unit must engage the other unit
in Close Combat. The Rinos cannot just move through the infantry,
unless there are big gaps in the infantry line.

Perhaps we could increse the Zone of Control to 2cm.

Lots of good, interesting posts lately,

Received on Sun Jan 30 2000 - 08:09:35 UTC

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