[NetEpic ML] Re: R: R: heresy questions: replay 2

From: Peter Ramos <pramos2_at_...>
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:18:40 -0600

Hi!

Yesterday evening we started a "little" scenario between orks and squats and
we used the above rule variant and we found that it work. If on prepared
fire light vehicules are vulnerable as any other units, on advance they are
decent, but they fire in advance fire, on charge they are strong, but
generally this order allow close combat but is compensated with the +2
accuracy bonus that defenders have.
Great it will be incorporated post haste.

Also about light vehicules, playtesting, I saw that they are equipared to
hard vehicule for suppression pourpose; I feel that the fire power dice
should be only halved, not quartered against them for anti infantry weapons
suppression, because their light chassis aren't comparable with the thick
armor plate that armored vehicules have and in any case the crew has a
relative protection and even a near miss shot can be a dreadfull experience
for an exposed crew.
Sound logic and easily corrected, I will include this also.

I correct my rules, but I tested that generally no one fire at a command
unit because the fear to lose the shoot in the case of unsuccessfull check
is too great.
This is sort of the effect I was looking for. People CAN shoot, but will likely use their fire for better targets and not a cheesy "kill all leaders approach".

Using the orks we had a case where a battleweagon that carried a boss, and
was part of the same detachment, was destroyed, in this case can I apply the
stealth skill still? And the look out sir rule still apply?
At the beginning of the skills section the following rules states:
"Command unit skills also apply to any transport vehicles or tanks they may occupy"
So amy accompanying vehicles get the stealth skill too. Also the look out sir skill applies to these vehicles.
The rules don't say anythink about suppressed units in close combat, arethey fighting capable as the unsuppressed one? I feel that their assaultfactor should be reduced (halved?). One of the modern war objective is thesuppression of the command & control.

        If you read the penalties for suppression it includes a -1 to the assault value. This seems small but remeber its to EACH model in the unit, making the overall effect very noticible. A greater penalty makes too easy to suppress than attack with weak foes and overcome them.

>The only think I don't like is that if a unit is in command will receive
>automatically a leadership bonus for this, I would like a more range
>restriction for the bonus only, for example the bonus could be received
        only
>if within 10 cm., further the unit should be considered only in command.
>Hmmm... thats a very good notion. I will work something out and present it
        to you. I >thonk its a good addition.

        This is the rule I devised the leader can only apply its leadersjip bonus to a number of units equal its leadership divided by 3 (round down). Thus a commander with a 3 leadership give their bonus to one unit per turn (players choice). Higher leadership lets you do it with more units. I can include a table to avoid doing the math. This represents that all units may be incontact with its commander and receive orders, but only a few of those units get the direct undivided attention and command resources at a given time, thus the bonus. How is that?


        I think that a suppressed command should be penalized because suppression
        paralize the order chain. IMHO a should halve their command range and deny
        any leadership bonus.

        I agree with this and will add it.


        Yes reaction fire could be a solution, but if I want to assault a prepared
        position where the defenders don't move, my hope for reaction fire will be
        denied.

        Hmmm.. well like I said the ordinance phase was originally there and now I'm kinda wondering about putting it back in. Now there is a danger about putting it before movement especially in the first turn before movement since troops are all bunched up it gives artillery too much advantage. then again that anomaly was in net epic. In Heresy line of sight and spotting checks reduce that danger. I'll repost how how this used to look like and you give me your opnion.

        Concerning smoke an blind mission, I didn't see in the rules any information
        about how many time these effect stay on the battlefield. I think that we
        must check in the end phase to see if their effect end, for example, smoke
        rounds end on a roll of 5+, blind on a roll of 7+.

        Page 8 Heresy core rules: blind and smoke rounds last one turn and are removed in the end phase.


>I like the system of purcheasing lower to higher
>commands, but one think I don't like is that every level of command state
>only the maximun number of units and type that could support, but leave the
>player free of buyng only the units he likes without any restriction of
>buyng line units before. For example an hearth guard command state that it
>can command four units, and two could be elite or support. With this
>argument one can buy only the elite or support. I would like to impose some
>restriction.
>Hmmm. not sure I follow you here. For example space marines company
        commander can >lead three units two must be line and one specail OR support,
        so he HAS to buy line >units, most army lists are this way. Please clarify.

        The rules state that you can buy a limited number for each classes, but I
        don't see any restiction to buy only some. For example: an heartguard hq
        support 4 units, two can be line, two can be support, what I don't like is
        that I can only buy the support ones without any restriction to buy at least
        some line units.

        Ah, now I understand.Thats easily fixed. I can insert a caviat requiring line unit be purchased before support or special units.

        Yesterday we started to play, we spent 30 min. to teach the rules and the
        same time to set up and explain the scenario. I transformed a classical ASL
        1941 russian assault with big tanks against german, in a orks (russian),
        squats (german) scenario. The thin squats line should delay the orks orde
        until the arrival of their reinforcements with some heavy guy.
        We used all except pretorians and titans. I wanted to do somethink that my
        friends could understand with easy because they played recently a similar
        scenario with ASL.
        The most important think I saw was that they sooner were able to play in
        right way, this is important because even if I did a faster teaching, they
        were able to understand the rules concepts immediatelly, this because the
        rules are well written and there are a lot of examples to explain every
        action.

        Thats a very important thing to point out after adding your suggestions it should be even more clearer. I thank Paul and his editing for making the rules this clear.

        The second think a noticed was that even we spent a lot of time reading,
        setting up etc. in two hours we played four turns with 2500 point per side.
        At the first time I read the rules I thought that the time required would be
        higher then epic, but playng I had the opposite feeling.

        Fabulous! My playtesting revealed that sizable games could be played in 2 hours. I am glad that your experience was similar. My take on the reading of the rules is that they read long to make the rules clear, but their play is easy, quick and simple.

        I had also the feeling that, after some hesitation, because someone like to
        play only historic rules, eveyone had an approach similar as they played a
        WW2 games and this was the reason that the rules has success.
        Next thuersday we will continue the scenario and we could master all the
        cases.

        I'm very glad they liked it. Please keep me informed of any more input they might have.

        Many thanks!

        Peter
Received on Thu Feb 10 2000 - 00:18:40 UTC