Ok, now i know why we have so many misunderstandings. Let me explain you how
we play epic: we always play 3 races against 4 in a random direction. And we
do not care about the gw-background like elder would not fight with chaos
and so on. So we have always different arrangements in a battle. We have the
following armies: chaos, elder, squats, marines, guards, orks and tyranids.
We play all 6 weeks and then the hole day! Because of the multiple races we
ignore the allies rule, because if you play for example chaos+guards+elder
against marines+tyranids+orks+squats, then you already have allies at all in
the point of view of a single army. So every army can only take the units of
their own army-list. Further we decide that every army can take all units of
the army-list including standard and codex without the percentage-rule. The
only condition is, that you have to take at least one company card from a
codex-list. For example: i play the space marines and because we want to use
all the verity of the units, i make up my army consisting of dark angels,
space wolves and iron hands. So i can do it, i have to take at least one
company from each chapter. I decide to take the dak angels ravenwing to
represent the dark angels in my hole space marine army, i take the great
comany from the space wolfes and the clan siege company from the iron hands.
Now i decide to include knights in my army - in our point of view the
knights are not a separate army. The knights could only be used by the
imperium (marines and guards) - so i have to take at least one company to do
so. I decide to take a paladin household and then i can take the ordinatus
golgotha as a special card. By the way, we ignore the titan legion too. In
our opinion the battles groups make a battle too partial so no one can take
them. So only the imperator titan is left in the titan legion and we put him
into the guard and marines standard army list as a special card. But back to
topic. Now i have build my space marine army consisting of dark angels,
space wolfes, iron hands and imperial knights. How many points i invest in
each chapter is equal as long as i have at least one company of each
chapter. I have only to be in the max. point value for my hole army. And now
back to our discussion and keep the things i described above in mind. If our
elder player decides to take the saim-hain wind rider host, then he has no
disadvantages, because then he can take another chapter or two to built his
hole elder army consisting of many chapters. So he has access to the tempest
by taking another chapter which then can take the tempest. And with this
background knowledge the points value for the saim-hain is very critical in
relation to the other armies.
Regards kai
_____
Von:
sentto-1142785-2041-1183420811-kai.elfers=web.de_at_...
[mailto:sentto-1142785-2041-1183420811-kai.elfers=web.de_at_...
o.com] Im Auftrag von Bruce Scott
Gesendet: Dienstag, 3. Juli 2007 02:00
An: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
Betreff: Re: [NetEpic ML] Digest Number 2040
The Jetbike host is available to standard Eldar and all Craftworlds and
consists of 2 squads of Jet Bikes and 1 of Vypers....15 stands total for 550
points. I'd say the Ravenwing compares pretty favourably with this.
The Wind Rider Host is a host card specific to the Saim-Hann craftworld
ONLY. Yes, it is a massive bargain.....and this is what it used to cost for
ALL ELDAR in the SM2 era. Saim-Hann in turn are not allowed to take the
Tempest Host or Phantom Titans....like Nils said, look at things in context,
not just specific sections of armies.
Ironic really, we get bombarded with "why is this not costed like it was in
SM2 days" posts....and now we have one saying "why is this costed like it
was in the SM2 days"!
******************************************************************
netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
02/07/2007 08:39 AM GMT
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1a. Re: Dark Angel Ravenwing vs. Saim-Hann Wind Rider Host <> From:
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Saim-Hann Wind Rider Host
Posted by: "nils.saugen_at_..."
<mailto:nils.saugen_at_...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Dark%20Angel%20Ravenwing%2
0vs%2E%20Saim-Hann%20Wind%20Rider%20Host> nils.saugen_at_...
<
http://profiles.yahoo.com/gringo74no> gringo74no
Mon Jul 2, 2007 12:24 am (PST)
Aha..
The old Wind Rider discussion appears once again... You have to take
into account the entire army list. Not only compare two units from two
different lists. These types of diffrences can be found throughout all
army lists. BTW the Wind Rider host should be a basic Eldar unit and
not, a Saim-Hann special unit.
Nils
-----Original Message-----
From: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:netepic%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:netepic_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:netepic%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf
Of Kai Elfers
Sent: 1. juli 2007 09:17
To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:netepic%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [NetEpic ML] Dark Angel Ravenwing vs. Saim-Hann Wind Rider Host
ok, we are talking about to companies of a codex amy, right?
the normal cost value of 2 land speeder and 1 attack bike detachment is
575 points. if i take the ravenwing, then i pay only 500 points, 75
points less then normal and a get a master of ravenwing. i think this
is great at all.
the normal cost of 2 vyper squads and 3 jetbike squads are 1100 points.
if i take the Saim-Hann Wind Rider Host i pay only 650. 450 !!!! points
less then normal. ok, they have no master of ravenwing, but this stand
in no relation due to other codex advantages.
i think you destroy the points relation between the armies and the
points were made for having 2 armies in balance. you can not reduce the
costs for a company by 40 percent!!!
[IMAGE]
Received on Tue Jul 03 2007 - 05:26:13 UTC