I totally agree with Warmaster here. The Imperium is reduced to science as
magic. This does not mean they can't operate their devices and more then
giving a car to a 16th century scientiest and HEAVILY detailed instructions
would make it unusable to him.
From the fluff, the true beginning of the Imperial dark age came about when
the fighting on Mars destroyed the great library the Emperor had built to
restore the old knowledge. And since he is now crippled he can't help
(although remember he was at times a great scientist).
Guess we'll have to wait for the Star Child...
Ken
---------------------------
There's a war out there, old friend, a world war. And it's not about who's
got the most bullets, it's about who controls the information. What we see
and hear, how we work, what we think, it's all about the information!
Cosmo, 'Sneakers'
----- Original Message -----
From: Warmaster F.I.Z. <cetgi_at_...>
To: <netepic_at_egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 9:00 AM
Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Tech Priests [was: Revision Issue: Titans]
> At 02.50 22/02/00 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >Yep. In Rogue Trader there is an interesting example of this. The fluff
> >text
> >specifies a huge number of rituals which must be done and the very last
> >line
> >states: "if all this is done properly the device should start when you
> >press
> >the button labeled "ON"".
> >
> >Jyrki Saari
> >
> >-->I disagree here. I think that the tech-priests have a full grasp of
> >the mechanics of the various technologies, but have applied a mythic
>
> Pardon me, but actually the fluff doesn't say this.
> Definitely Adeptus Mechanicus doesn't have a full grasp of the
> mechanics of the various technologies. That's reserved to Squat
> Engineers.
> Of course the Tech Priest Magos have a *vague* idea of how their
> machines work, and of the base principles of their own field of
> application (excuse me my poor wording), but the bulk of the
> Adeptus can only chant litanies and press the "ON" button.
>
> >background to it. It's more like taking a cook book, and making the
> >baking of a cake onto a religious ceremony. If they no concept of the
>
> In fact you don't need to know all the priciples (chemical or culinarian,
> it doesn't matter) in order to make a cake, if you follow the cook book
> (or you have a cake-making ritual) to the letter. Of course you won't be
> able to make a different cake...
>
> >basics, they would not be able to repair, let alone create "new"
> >mechanical devices. All that has been done really, is to put a religion
>
> They have repair (and build) procedures, that, repeated to the letter,
> allow them to maintain their devices. And the "new" mechanical devices
> created by the AM from the end of the Horus Heresy can be numbered using
> the fingers of your hand... Only few Magos of genius managed to enhance
> existing technologies (i.e. Tech Magus Voltar recently designed a more
> efficent Plasma Reactor), let alone creating or adopting new technologies
> (the AM tried to copy the Squat Warp-core reactor- the experiment was
carried
> on Ganymede, and didn't result in a major Chaos invasion of the Solar
System
> just because Ganymede is the home"world" of the Grey Knights SM chapter!)
>
> Almost any technological advance in the Imperium had been carried on by
> the Emperor himself (just look at the Power Armor variants: the first
> 7 models had been designed in few centuries, then it took 10.000 years
> just to cover the cablings of the most recent model!)
>
> >around the engineering. They may not call electricity and fusion power
> >natural things, but divine powerings from the machine god (which also
> >happens to be the Emperor).
>
> Actually the Machine God isn't the Emperor. The cult is millennia older
> tha the Imperial Cult. But the AM worship the Emperor, for he "Knew so
> much..."
> (Rogue Trader).
> I guess that they don't even call them "eletricity" or "fusion Power", but
> just things like "the breathe of the Machine God" and "The hot spirit" or
> something like that. Of course Magos Physics will have some knowledge of
> how these "supernatural forces" acts, under some circumstances, but
> this will be higly intermixed with superstitions and false beliefs.
> Like you said in your other post it's not the prayer that gives the baking
> powder the power to fluff the cake, but instdead the baking powder and the
> prayer
> magically allow the cake to fluff...
> It will be just enough to manage to get the machines working, (what
matters if
> that cable carries electricity or the machine's soul? If it's cut the
> machine stop
> working/dies regardless of your beliefs/knowledge) but no more.
>
> >While some of the physics behind all of it
> >may have been lost, they still know how to harness and use all that
> >"divine power" to their own ends. Zen and the art of Titan maintainance
> >is a big seller on forge worlds I understand...
>
> Well, I would say that *most* of the physics had been lost, or at least
had
> been warped in a way that will be hardly recognizable by modern day
> scientists.
> What it had been lost is the scientific analysis, the experimental method
>
> They know that if they mount all those pieces in that way, and chant the
> right
> litanies, then the Machine God will be pleased and will imbue the new
machine
> a soul that will allow it to work, until its life balance will be
destroyed.
> If the damage is easily localizable (a cut cable, for example), then the
> appropriate ritual (that, coincidentally, includes re-attaching the cable)
> will heal the wound, and the machine will be able to work again.
>
> Of course a Magus will try to grasp better the ways these devices work.
> "Well, my theory is that with this litany the Generator will be so pleased
> that it will agree to concede a bit of its life breath, that pass from
this
> yellow cable. Now, the incense will transform the generator breath into
food
> for the led, that will now have the strenght to lit up..." but what they
lack
> is the scientific method ("what will happen if I don't chant the
litanies?")
> I guess they specifically forbid the experimental method in order to
prevent
> disasters ("What happens if I connect directly the generator to my tongue?
> YYYCKES! Maybe I need more incense..." and worse)
>
>
> Just my 0,02 Euros...
>
>
>
> Be unpredictabe. If your opponent doesn't know what to expect from you,
> he won't be able to counter-act poperly.
>
> Tactica F.I.Z.
> Book 2, Chapter 6
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *** Got Questions? Get Answers. Got Answers? Get Paid. ***
> Sign up at Infomarco.com and you can win $30,000 cash or a trip to China.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1251/2/_/7255/_/951325453/
>
> -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!
> -- http://www.egroups.com/cal?listname=netepic&m=1
>
>
>
Received on Wed Feb 23 2000 - 22:02:24 UTC