Hi!
I agree we should be cautious and not change too much, but the bottom line
is that we haven't! If you saw the summary I posted it all went down to 5
changes, mostly cosmetic for some units or weapons and we actually ARE going
back to the original rules by eliminating the old flyer phase.
In essence we are just "tweaking" of course we should not tweak too much,
but up to now we haven't changed much. Only stuff with clear majority vote
has passed.
I have played all the armies extensively for as long as the game has been
around and it bugs me that some units NEVER see the light of day. From a
game design point of view if people are not using them something is wrong
with it or at least perceived that way and that deserves a closer look. What
I want is basically that all units be worth taking and units living up to
their cost. For the most part 95% or more of the costs as they are I can
live with. Its that remaining 5% I'm after.
In truth I agree with Butch on the holofields, I have for a long time lived
with its shortcomings just fine, but also I have heard bitching and moaning
over the holofield issue since the original suplement came out. The
concession that seems to have found favor is a small one in truth, but gives
some comfort and lets eldar player sfinally use their titans, even if the
problem was one of perception. I was sort of tired of being the only eldar
player in my neck of the woods who used these in every game. If a change can
get more to use them, great.
As for flyers, I agree more and more with those that want something very
close to the original rules, if not the original rules themselves. Its
easier, familiar and tested. The reason for all the changes that it has
undergone is due to the fact that once Aa weapons were introduced,
transports wound up being nearly worthless. That has a 180 degree shift from
before the AA guns appeared when they were too powerful.
The search for a happy medium, I guess, got out of hand. In reality I can
live and perfer the old system with some caviats. I will post these
separately.
The bottomline with the flyer issue is that of what to do with transports so
as not to make them too good, but not worthless. I'll post these ideas with
the flyer stuff too.
As I look ahead at the remaing lists only really a habdful of things will
probably be changed, these are:
1. deathstrikes
2. wave serpents
3. doom weavers
and thats pretty much it.
Peter
> Hi Butch!
>
> Your right, flyers by themselves are not SUPER powerfull. The problem
> comes in
> when you have Thunderhawks loaded up. If you don't have the fighter
> support,
> your not going to land them. This has led to a sort of Arms Race, in
> which
> both sides commit serious amounts of points to air. Too many, in my
> opinion.
> You say that your group kinda limits yourselves. How do you do this?
> We have
> tried making air units special cards, but don't like the result of this.
>
> As far as Space Wolves go, I would like the Terminator Great Company to
> be
> limited to 4 in any battle (There's only so many Terminator Suits), and
> the
> cost raised 50pts. I would like to see the Long Fangs reduced 25pts.
> I rarely ever see Long Fangs, because of the cost. This is a pitty,
> because
> they are a revered part of the Space Wolves.
>
> I agree that a good General, can make any army work. But at what cost?
> Does this mean ONLY taking the cost effective units? I think most
> Generals
> choose units based on ability and price. So, the Dreadnoughts, Long
> Fangs,
> Terminators, Land Speeders, etc... get left at home to twiddle thier
> thumbs.
>
> This is a real shame, because the these units have so much history,
> fluff and
> flavor, to them. A unit should have a price, based on it's real value,
> so
> people will actually use it.
>
> The armies are very well ballenced against each other, for the most
> part.
> But this does not mean that they could not use a little tweaking, here
> and
> there.
>
>
> What does everyone else think?
>
> Warprat ;)
>
>
>
>
> "butch hobson" fo-_at_... wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/netepic/?start=3162
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: warprat_at_... warprat@...
> > To: netepic_at_... netepic@...
> > Date: Thursday, March 30, 2000 5:18 PM
> > Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Flyers revisited yet again!
> >
> >
> > >Hi Peter!
> > >
> > >I like the idea of listing several alternatives, so further
> playtesting
> > >can
> > >be done. Flyers are SO powerfull, they deserve a lot of thought.
> > >
> > >
> > Personally, I'd like to see flyers left as is. In the games my
> buddies and
> > I play, I've come to realize that flyers just don't make that much a
> > difference. Of course, we don't take "All Flyers" for support
> choices; we
> > kinda limit ourselves. But even so, flyers, by themselves, cannot
> win the
> > battle. They're pretty expensive units (especially if they're taken
> down in
> > a dogfight), and they can't hold objectives.
> >
> > Limiting them to Special Cards or in number really won't serve any
> purpose,
> > except severely dropping the amount of flyers you'll see on the board.
> > Everybody has differing playing styles and I can't see penalizing
> somebody
> > who likes using flyers.
> >
> > It's like Eldar Holofields. People have "bitched" enough so now, we
> have a
> > rules change (I play Eldar, and really see nothing wrong with
> Holofields the
> > way they currently work). If we change too much, and start limiting
> some
> > units or make them more powerful, we're going to lose the game we
> enjoy by
> > unbalancing it.
> >
> > I've seen some rants about Space Wolves being too cheap for what you
> get.
> > That's just silly. They're more expensive than normal Marines. And
> like
> > normal Marines, are very limited in the Vehicle/Firepower area. The
> Blood
> > Claws special "howl" isn't a serious threat and the Long Fangs weapon
> range
> > is only 50cm and they still cost more than normal Devastators. Leave
> them
> > alone; it all balances out.
> >
> > I'm just starting my first Chaos force. In terms of consistent
> firepower,
> > Chaos sucks! Any unit that shoots decently or has more than 1 attack
> dice
> > is pretty expensive. CAF's for many units particularly KHORNITE
> units are
> > relatively low. But what the hell? It's the way the rules and army
> lists
> > were set up. I'll use them that way. You can't have your cake and
> eat it,
> > too.
> >
> > It comes down to how effectively a general uses what he has. Perhaps
> it's
> > time for everybody on this list to field a completely different
> army/armies.
> > Maybe the one(s) that give you the most problems. After awhile I'm
> almost
> > certain you'll find that it really is a matter of play style and not
> army
> > lists.
> >
> > b
> > we now return you to your regularly scheduled program
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Received on Fri Mar 31 2000 - 02:47:40 UTC