Hi!
I actually meant the Astropath, not the Librerian. I always
confuse the two :)
Rune
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Ramos [mailto:primarch_at_...]
> Sent: 11. februar 2001 17:24
> To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] Return of the slann
>
>
> Hi!
>
> You can attempt really long jumps now, but the rate of model loss is
> higher too. It adds that bit of uncertainty since the enemy can not
> predict how far you can go.
>
> The "leaders" warp jump ability apples to the detachment it "leads",
> read as is in coherency with. I have always disliked
> initiative bonuses,
> besides the magus's and others job is to navigate the warp,
> not predict
> the future.
>
> The librarian has not been changed. He could never nullify
> attacks, he
> can only "purge psyker", which means engage the psyker
> itself. Only the
> slann can dispel powers.
>
> I'll be editing the rules, before I give them to Daniel for
> final editing.
>
> Peter
>
> Karlsen Rune wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > Thanx for the positive feedback :) I was a little worried
> for a while. Guess
> > the changes wont
> > affect the tactics, and the warp changes might even open up
> for new "cheesy"
> > moves.
> > I can just hear the complaints now :)
> > Has the librerian been changed btw? Not that im an IG
> expert, but i seem to
> > remember Nils
> > telling me he could use it to stop any and all psycher
> attacks...hmm..maybe
> > my memory
> > is failing me in my "old" age ;)
> > The +2 bonus the Mage would apply to accompaning warp jump
> units, would that
> > apply to
> > a detachment only? I'll really miss the +1 initiative bonus :(
> >
> > I agree, it would be sweet to kick ass with the new units.
> We're trying to
> > have a joint
> > 10k point battle between chaos/chaos renegades Vs. Slann/SM
> soon. Hope the
> > 4.1
> > rules comes out before then, so there won't be any more complaints:)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Ramos [mailto:primarch_at_...]
> > Sent: 10. februar 2001 19:39
> > To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] Return of the slann
> >
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > I agree in theory, but id really like to see how this would be done.
> > Also, remember that everybody hasnt got ALL of the
> different exodite,
> > necron and slann figures. Ive based my purchases on the 1.0
> list, and
> > would really hate to find that id have to spend another $200 to buy
> > more units, or to see units i already have incompatible
> with my other
> > units.
> >
> > Very important point. I will list what would tentatively
> consist of each
> > army list and we can all input what units can overlap and
> which can't, so as
> > to validate everyones present collections.
> >
> >
> > Well, i agree that there should be weapon conformity. Some
> units, like
> > the Vanguards, will have to have their prices adjusted though..
> >
> > Most certainly. The exodus will need the larger points
> reductions, but ture
> > slann infantry will probably be reduced 50-100 points. As
> with the army list
> > a full list of slann costs will be listed again for discussion.
> >
> >
> > GREAT MAGUS
> >
> > Many problems with the powers too overblown.
> >
> > I really havnt noticed this at all. Besides, there are plenty
> > of psychics/magicians which have are more powerful. Chaos
> > magi come to mind :)
> >
> > In practice its not so much the power on its own, but the
> combination with
> > some tactics that make it alittle overwhelming. Note the
> power are still
> > strong, but there is a chance of failure, albiet small
> rather than no chance
> > of failure.
> >
> >
> > Subjugation, this power permits double actions (a big no,
> > no), the power
> > should read "affects unit that has not been activated", still
> > powerful,
> > but within reason.
> >
> > This is a given..
> >
> >
> > Nullify psychic, this is an automatci power, too good, power
> > successful
> > on roll of 3+, still good but now within reason.
> >
> >
> > One word : Librerian. This guy stops ALL psychic attacks if the
> > roll is made (1d6+2 isnt it? The opponent rolls 1d6?). Ive always
> > wondered what would happen if a Librerian met a Great Mage and
> > both used their nullify powers to nullify the others
> nullify attempt :)
> >
> > The librarian can't "stop" psychic attacks, he can battle a
> psyker directly.
> > The two powers do two different things. The librarian tries
> to destroy the
> > psyker where as the magus eliminates spell effects in play
> or otherwise.
> > Lets say a eldar warlock cast eldritch strom, the magus can
> roll a 3+ and
> > nullify it. He does attack the warlock like a librarian
> would, just the
> > power. No other unit in epic an dissipate powers, its a
> really good power,
> > too good to be automatic. Just think, he could dissipate,
> storms, psychic
> > locks, dominatrix shield, tzeentch vortex, and a lot more.
> >
> >
> > His CAF is reduced to +4, he doens't really fight much, his +1
> > initiative is substituted with a +2 bonus for warp jumps,
> > thats his job
> > after all. Attack dice is 1 with a 4+ to hit.
> >
> >
> > Hmm...this is pretty drastic. He used to be able to defend himself
> > if he moved around. Now he's reduced to a "stand in cover" unit.
> > I really dont like this idea...
> >
> > He's the CAF of a librarian, thats pretty good, also remember he has
> > battlesuit armor to jump pack around the table. Also he
> will get the +2 to
> > warp jump rolls for accompanying units. Imagine this guy
> leading some necron
> > assault units.... He's got a lot of good stuff, too high a
> CAF makes it too
> > good. Besides he's not supposed to be on his own, but supported.
> >
> >
> > Remember to adjust the cost...
> >
> > I think the cost before they went up would be good.
> >
> >
> > Ive never even used the scarabs :)
> >
> > Beleive me you didn't miss anything, way too fiddly.
> >
> >
> > The CAF changes have been tested and raiders will have a +1 CAF and
> > assaults +3. Remember their powers make their CAF higher than
> > just this
> > number. Raiders are shooters so their to hit stays at 4+.
> >
> >
> > If you're going to do this, id like to see a save modifier on the
> > raiders weapons. They are, as you say, shooters. I also think
> > that Necrons should have higher breakpoints due to their nature.
> >
> > I agree here, a -1 modifier is in order no doubt. Also the
> break point
> > should be higher since they dont suffer morale, sort of
> like squat break
> > points, but ONLY for necron infantry not vehicles or
> others. The cost would
> > remain the same.
> >
> >
> > Necron lord CAF is +5, then again with standard necron powers
> > make this
> > guy as good as a terminator HQ.
> >
> > Regenerate does not work in close assault.
> >
> > Necron dreadnought are units of 3 and their cannon stats
> are, 50cm, 1
> > attack dice, 4+ to hit, -2 modifier.
> >
> > Necron vehicles, the changes are mostly to conform with
> > standarization
> > of miniguns and a 4+ to hit "cap" on main guns, attack dice and
> > modifiers remain the same, so does "repair".
> >
> > The cubekeepers CAF is off it should be +1.
> >
> >
> > Ok, but the cost should come down..
> >
> > Again we will re-evaluate all cost. On a glance I think all
> will go down at
> > least 50 points maybe even 100 in the case of units that
> had to hits of 3+
> > and now are 4+.
> >
> >
> > I'd like to make one more comment on the changes. When i first saw
> > the Slann, i thought : "damn, here's the army i always wanted to
> > play! Extremely good, pricey units. Quality, not quantity".
> > So, why did they change? Why not up the cost until they're fair?
> > They've been steadily reduced, instead of upping the cost, which
> > is they road id rather have taken. If the cost is right, there
> > has to be a point where quality and quantity balance. Of course,
> > im just one person, and my personal preferences dont count much
> > in the grand Epic scheme, but i really liked the whole "elitism"
> > idea (and no, im not a Nazi ;). Sure, they are still good, but for
> > me the thrill is gone. I guess Epic is based on numbers, and there
> > really isnt a place for a small but elite army. Strategy wise, its
> > much harder to play a small army, which i a!
> >
> > !
> >
> > lso like...
> >
> > Point taken. Like I said I've seen ost of this in action
> and your units are
> > still VERY effective. Wait til you use the newer warp jump
> rules, while
> > risky, imagine a slan mage in mech armor leading a mech
> unit with its +2
> > bonus, pretty long jumps, You might lose some, but you have
> the legendary
> > slann precision and deep attack that no army has. The CAF
> on the necron
> > units with their innate powers make them equivalent of
> higher CAF unit. Even
> > raiders are a match for roughriders and bikes and only
> trolls and such can
> > hope to defeat assault necrons. With the increased break
> point you get the
> > desired effect of hard hitting troops that last a long time.
> >
> > Necron vehicles are virtually the same.
> >
> > Uping the cost runs into the problem of too small armies.
> After all you want
> > to feel like you indeed have an army not a skirmish force.
> Still their
> > armies are pretty small, that hasn't changed at all. The
> changes, with
> > exception of the warp jump rules are more cosmetic than
> anything else. The
> > still play the same and the tactics are the same (some work
> even better
> > now).
> >
> > Trust me, I want to keep their "feel" as much as you do,
> because I too am
> > heavily invested in collection their army (35000+ at this
> point!). But at
> > the end of the day though I dont want anyone complaining
> about cheesiness
> > and such. I realize you cannot please everyone, but the
> complaints given and
> > more importantly the resolutions are VERY reasonable. Also
> note on certain
> > points I will not budge, like repair for necron filers, as
> I say "a necron
> > is a necron" whether it flies or not.
> >
> > Try out the changes, you'll be pleased and when you slay
> your enemies before
> > you they can only envy your generalship. Cries of "too
> good" will have no
> > validity anymore since most of these changes were suggested
> by non-slann
> > players themselves. Besides its sweet to kick ass with
> suggestions the enemy
> > has made!!
> >
> > I will soon post the prosed units for exodus and necron
> with the proposed
> > points cost.
> >
> > Thanks for the input!!
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Received on Mon Feb 12 2001 - 07:56:16 UTC