>
> Thanks Peter!
>
> I know Chaos is really frustrating the heck out of Rune, and
> he's had it
> though with us pulling apart his Slann army since it first
> appeared and
> caught his interest! Neither of us is familiar with Chaos, so we are
> learning while we play. It' dosent help matters much, that
> our Chaos player
> is a really devious SoB. :)
hehe :)
> And Yes, we draw randomly from the deck!!!! By the way, are
> Chaos Cards
> regarded as psychic powers?
>
> What's really strange is that when playing chaos you never
> think much of
> your cards, while the opponent greatly fears them.... They
> are best used in
> combination with each other.
>
> As for Deamons hiding, The bloothirster moved forward as fast
> as it could,
> through a forrest overcrouded with fanatics and trolls killed of the
> oposition.
The bloodthirster never saw combat :)
> Fulgrim took care of business in our set up sone, where the
> enemy had landed
> their droppods, and he could do that behind a building.
>
> Magnus the Red was plased behind som buildings hiding him
> from half the
> board, while he was visible to the other half. But he has got a great
> range!!!
>
> As for the rest of the battle, both sides made a lot of
> mistakes (I guess
> that's what happens when you play battles this size), we Certainly had
> better die rolls (I killed a Warhound with 3 shots from a
> fanatic support
> detachment....!!!). But the Chaos Army was better put
> thogether and we had
> IMO a far better battleplan, we had designated goals for
> every detachment in
> our army. We planned for supported assaults against all
> objective points and
> managed to capture 6 out of the 8 points.
We also had a sound plan, unfortunately, we didnt have enough
troops to counter some of the chaos forces....
We also had to be careful with the Necrons, so as not
to affect the SM's. In retrospect, i agree that we
should have had SM on one flank, instead of in the middle.
The terminators should have had the right flank, and
the Slann/Necrons the middle and left..
>
>
> Other than that, and this goes for all special units, you pay
> to put them on
> the board, and it's stupid not to use them. I cant count the
> number of times
> I've brought along psyckers and never gotten to use them....
> Thats poor
> play!!!!
Well, as i remember, i lost a psycher on a barrage deviation roll
before he could be used. I didnt really get to use the Great Mage
much, since he was placed in the middle and not on f.ex the
right flank, where he could have targeted a silver tower or something :)
Rune
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Ramos [mailto:primarch_at_...]
> Sent: 4. mars 2001 19:06
> To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] Titan CC
>
>
> Hi!
>
> Karlsen Rune wrote:
>
> > Yes, you're right, im talking about the lure of slaanesh.
> > But, as far as i know, there isnt a moral check. At least,
> > the legion which gets the card doesnt have a check.
> > Thats the way its been played at least. I dont doubt
> > that ive been screwed over by the chaos players,
> > since i really dont know that much about how the army
> > works. I mean, ive read the rules, but ive not
> > memorized them :)
>
> The chaos marine legion gift card, when used, is automatic in effect,
> but effects ONE unit as per its orders within 25cm range. The
> primarch
> fulgrim power requires morale checks, but can affect more units.
>
> I have seen it all as far as chaos. Its one of the armies i play more
> frequently. For every one player who says chaos is hard to
> beat with "x"
> army, another tells me he can't win a game with chaos because
> they are
> weak.
>
> The main problem is not all the cards but the precious few "real good
> ones" in the deck and their interpretation. I'm going to assume the
> chaos cards are given out randdmly as per teh rules and the
> chaos player
> is not "selecting" them. If not theres your first major problem.
>
> >
> > This is only one of the things i find strange about some
> > chaos powers. Like the way some dont discriminate between
> > good units or lousy ones. The burning bodies card,
> > for example. Since its a non-physical psychic card,
> > it doesnt differenciate between units. No matter if
> > they are 0 CAF infantry with no save which are
> > a dime a dousin, or Vanguards with 4+ fixed save.
>
> Why should they discrimiate? I have have a saying for this "magic is
> magic and it affects anything". Most of the powerful magic
> affects the
> mind/soul so armor doesn't amount to much. Those powers that
> grant saves
> and have modifiers are thwarted by fixed saves. So powers DO
> discriminate, BUT it depends which you are talking about.
>
> >
> > These cards may not be that valuable when playing
> > against f.ex IG, they are indeed game killers when
> > played against the Slann. Not to mention that
> > every time we play chaos, there are A LOT of discussions
> > about rules and powers. The result is always : "Can
> > affect any unit" or "Can be played at any time".
> > I agree its in chaos' nature to be unpredictable,
> > but if they were this good, they'd have overrun
> > the universe a long time ago....Who can stand a chance
> > except those who have units like the astropath?
>
> Thats the point fight power with power. If you battle chaos
> without even
> one psyker your asking for trouble. Even one gives you that certain
> edge. Do you absolutely need it to win? No. But then you must come up
> with different ways to deal with different strategies.
>
> > Our chaos player has also adopted a very good strategy
> > against us. He simply hides his demons, so that
> > we cant take any cards away from him, and use
> > his legions and juggers to attack. VERY effective
> > in conjunction with some of the awesome "no save, no how"
> > powers/cards. I've pointed out that a demon would
> > probably not hide behind buildings, and would certainly
> > not retreat into the setup zone to hide behind a
> > building. He certainly agrees to this, but there are
> > no rules against this, and wont admit that its
> > cheesy. Its in fact a very sound tactic! Never mind
> > that the demons behave like cowards :)
>
> Some chaos players do this, I dont find it distressing,
> actually I like
> it, because when they hide they can use some of their powers
> due to lack
> of LOS, more importantly most of their powers are short ranged, so if
> they are not being used agressively they will never be used
> against my
> main line hanging back shooting.
>
> Ask Darius and Ed how I play my greater demons, they never
> hide, better
> to use its awesome powers once and then die, to hide and not
> use it at
> all, its a waste. This style of play rarely influences the number of
> cards I have in my hand, becasue I am willing to let a demon
> die, rather
> to expend cards i need elsewhere.
>
> The jugger/bloodletter assault are all too familar to me and
> very easily
> swept aside with water ever army you use, here the simple do
> and donts:
>
> Against juggers
> 1. hide in terrain they cant go in namely buildings, it
> doesn't matter
> how good they are if they can't get you
> 2. shot them long before they reach you. Its a common mistake to wait
> when they are in charging distance to fire at them. Make them your
> targets with barrages or whatever you got from the get go.
> The less they
> are before they reach you the better.
> 3. sacrificial lamb- commonly players use their fast attack
> vehicles in
> predicable forward rushes. Why not keep them in reserve until
> they are
> in range and charge THEM first. You may not breal them, but
> its another
> turn they dont move forward and you shot them to pieces,
> especially on
> advance fire after the fight is over
> 4. fighting withdrawl- use units with a fair amount of firepower and
> range, shoot on advance then move on advance backwards. It
> will give you
> at least one turn bonus for shooting at them. It takes a frontline
> jugger 3 turns to cross the 80cm that separates you, make it pay for
> advancing.
>
> Against bloodletters
> 1. use weapons that fire in the movement phase or orders
> phase like the
> drop pods or wave serpent, even if you get ONE, they can't break
> coherency with the regenerating unit, since it is not "dead".
> This stops
> them for one turn, while you turn up the heat.
> 2. snap fire, I know you dont use it, but its the single most easiest
> way to stop them while moving.
> 3. you can mix in some of the above "jugger" tactics too
>
> >
> > Like the game we played yesterday. Slann/SM vs. Chaos and
> > Renegade armies. After 2 rounds, Chaos 104? Slann/SM 46 i
> > think.. Both armies made mistakes, and they had quite
> > a few lucky dice rolls (like taking out a scout titan
> > with 3 shots from HW infantry. BUT, its just too good
> > when they can charge an OP, make the unit invis after CC,
> > and noone can shoot in. And take out a titan in one
> > average rolled shot. And take over a necron detachment
> > after the overtakers had moved (no save of course,
> > why would there be any, they're "chaos powers" after
> > all), then play a chaos card on that very same detachment
> > (after CC) and charge 10 more cms to another detachment.
> > One by one, they're not gamekillers. Together, they
> > are. With chaos cards, you can always adjust. They're
> > more than equalizers. Before i played chaos, i saw
> > the discussions going on on this list, but i never
> > really took any notice of them. Now i understand what
> > they were all griping about..
>
> I repeat, they are getting their cards randomly..right? You seem to
> mention the same powers each and every game. Out of a deck of
> 42 cards
> ther are only 12 cards that good, to get them in every game you have
> mentioned is odd....
>
> Still, I dont see the problem, but I think its more your lack of
> exposure to certain "deadly" combinations. The
> "charge-win-close-combat-and-use-another-card-to-fight-again-o
> r-become-insiv
> ible"
> ploy is well known to me. Only ONE unit can do it, because the cards
> will be discarded afterwards. The best defense is to avoid
> being in the
> situation to begin with. He can only do this to you in open ground or
> other terrain the juggers can move around, so dont dump
> troops in such a
> place. I usually use bait, leave one such unit in an
> objective in open
> ground, and lots of firepwoer in surrounding terrain (well
> farther than
> 10cm). He could still go invisible fine, but remember an
> invsibile unit
> CANNOT act in any way after the power takes affect. So just roll in a
> friendly unit and contest teh objective, its neither his or
> yours. The
> list of anti-tricks is long, but its a matter of your
> familiarity with them.
>
> >
> > The good news is that we all agreed the Slann look good
> > now. We thought the necron titan is overpriced at 750,
> > but thats just after one game. Against another army,
> > it might be more balanced. I can certainly understand
> > why noone wanted to play against the Slann before
> > they were balanced (except Nils of course, he loves
> > to be the underdog), i have just the same feeling
> > against chaos. I cant imagine how its possible to
> > beat chaos with the orks for example...
>
> Good, I thought as much, As for chaos, your "new" to them, it
> takes some
> getting used to their "tricks" once thats out of the way,
> counterploys
> become easier to deal with.
>
> Peter
>
>
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Received on Mon Mar 05 2001 - 08:23:40 UTC