Re: [Epic] off topic:Wd leaderless?

From: Oki Purwanto <oki_at_...>
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 17:48:43 +0800

At 12:22 AM 1/1/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>><< To cut the story short, he got pretty worked up over the whole matter.
>Me
>> thinks this is because E40K sales has been very disappointing. And the
>> feedback that these GW guys get is that E40K is too simple as compared to
>> Epic. Mayhaps someone could compile the mails that just went on a few days
>> ago on the list :) >>
>>
>>I think the big problem E40k is having, is that there really is no target
>>audience for it.
>-----> Damn right - let's review:
> It's a game that allows nothing but tactics. Powergamers (which would,
unfortunately, mean many younger people who have begun to play 40k and WHFB
within the past few years) see no value in it So, the people that play their
other games aren't interested or excited about...
>


> Many Epic veterans are horribly bitter about the fact that GW
>>totally redesigned their game.

I think the problems of E40K not doing as well as expected is due to the
target market it was aimed at. I am not quite sure if E40K was intended at
1) existing (previously ;)) Epic gamers 2) new gamers.

With regards to the new gamers, I think someone mentioned about E40k being
1) abstract (the turns sequence were very different from what we were used
to wasn't it ?)

2) harder to abuse (no super duper Imperator that can become invulnerable,
cast vortex every other round, charge up to 60cm)

I would like to add
3) too small scale - I was quite surprised at the number of players in
Singapore who thinks that their paint jobs or their potential ;P paint jobs
are very good. And as such, they pretty much disdain the idea of painting
small defeatured miniatures of the SM or those small tanks. "What ? You want
to waste time painting the eyes on the SM characters ? I Awesome logic
isn't it ?

4) Lack of a solid base of Epic players to initiate them into E40K universe.
Why should they buy E40K when every weekend over at the store, they only see
WHFB and WH40K being played ?
  
Then with regards to the old gamers, I think the new system managed to
cheesed off a lot of the gamers - the major reason was that the new system
was practically incompatible with the old one and also a lot of old time
gamers have the feeling of being screwed once too many time by GW for
whatever reason.

Firstly the stand, sure GW designers said that you can use the old square
stands, but all their photos/reports showed the new stand system.

Secondly, all those new models being released. Can you imagine if the new
edition of 40k comes with SM armor MK IX (not VIII which is fairly close to
VII) and these new models are stonking good. And when you bring your old
models for a game, you get strange looks. "Are you sure this is official
E40K line ?"

And I am sure quite a number of us still have unopened blisters of Epic
miniatures, which is too pricey to just throw away, yet doesn't look as well
as the new models :) It is just impractical (let's not talk about GW pricing
policy) to totally throw away your old doomweaver for the new ones. BTW how
many oldtimers have totally reequipped their detachments with the new
Titans, tanks, aircrafts ?

Thirdly the rule changes was too drastic. And that will take time to sink
in. I must say though, personally I prefer E40K.

Lastly the expectation of GW for E40k was probably too high. While the
number of box purchases for E40K might be pretty OK when compared - mere
speculation - to BloodBowl, Necromunda, GorkaMorka, it has not been able to
make the returns that GW expected. Compare the number of new models, effort,
concepts (variable turrets !!), accessories that E40K has compared to
BloodBowl, Necromunda. I think these guys put in a lot of effort and money
in E40K, but did not get the return they expected ;P

Not sure if I should say serve them right :) But I heard one of the reason
of them coming out with the Chaos Warriors box set (plastic set with
variable arms !!) was that their bottomline did not do as well as expected -
but that is probably due to the WHFB line.

Regards
Oki


    
 
>---------> ....And the people who played the previous versions of this game
>aren't interested or excited about it...
>
> >But, this is a hard concept for young 40k players, or old SM/TL vets to
>>understand. They want this model to shoot at that one, etc, etc...
>-----------> I don't think it's harder, it's just radically different from
>the rest of their games. Many of us play a lot of other games, more or less
>complicated, mini or not mini, etc, but we vets has a game we liked, spent a
>lot of time and money on it, and then we got yanked in favor of a
>theoretical new audience, which has not materialized. Heh.
>
> Maybe,
>>someday, E40k'll catch on.
>--------> Part of me says "any Epic is better than no Epic" , and part of me
>says "they need to learn a lesson."
>
>Chris Miller
>
>
>
Received on Thu Jan 01 1998 - 09:48:43 UTC