Re: [Epic] RGMW Newsgroup.

From: Thane Morgan <thane_at_...>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:36:50 -0700

Miller, Chris wrote:
>
> > You have to protect the GD's until dsome of thos attacks go away. I
> > usually took KOS's and
> > Mortarion against Eldar, since they don't need line of sight for their
> > attacks to work. They
> > were kept in a forest gaurding an objective or two until the psi
> > levels started to come down.
> > LOB's are less vulnerable to eldar psi weapons; You've got a 66%
> > chance of negating the wave
> > serpents and prism cannons before the armor save; and its practically
> > eldarish if you're winning.
> > We did play that LOB's were command units (which was alternately
> > confirmed and denied in the codex
> > and Q&A's)
> > so with 2 deathstorms, it could be a very sad fireprism or falcon
> > which popped up against it.
> --------> Maybe you used a different pop-up rule, but I believe the text
> was "can see anywhere on the table" so how do you hide from them? Also
> LOB's are fine (always take mine!) but psychic saves don't negate beam
> attacks like the Weirdboy bolts and the Prism cannon - that's in TL I
> believe. Also the range on the deathstorm wasn't anything great, so even
> with this immunity to prism cannons rules interp, I think I'd have to
> use a Tempest on it - can't hide from it, can't outrange it, and it
> gets 2 very nasty shots. <POP> goes the LOB, there go his
> followers...I've done it before as my chaos forces were usually used by
> another player. The LOB will be long dead before the Wave Serps become
> an issue. The Prism cannon can pop-up and nuke any GD's that think
> they're out of LOS, and the psychic lance can march over and find them
>
> > Minotaurs were great for gaurding objectives or advancing in 22 strong
> > waves towards a phantom.
> > They were also good for keeping jetbikes off of a warlord. No doubt
> > you've seen the effects of 2
> > barrage missile launchers on eldar titans.
> --------> Well the built - in titan weapon multi-launchers werren't any
> huge threat - no save mod. Barrage missiles were one-shots, and they
> were nasty, but it's a 1- missile 1- titan kill at best, unless the
> Eldar player bunches up bigtime.
> Minotaurs were cool, but they usually died before they got anywhere
> in our games.
>
> > Chaos Marines RocK!!!! I almost always took Mortarians and/or Magnus's
> > guys, as they were great
> > for either wiping out a bike swarm or a Tempest group/phantom. They
> > also had a save modifier and a
> > better chance to hit, and are quite capable of taking out tanks and
> > titans by sheer volume.
> -------> The marines are good, esp the two you mention, but they did
> have to get fairly close to use their powers. With the swarm, they'd
> come to you, but I don't see anyone getting near the tempests on FF...
>
> > Getting them there; If I was going to use thunderhawks for deploying
> > marines, I always put out
> > empty thunderhawks first and closer. The extra 50 points was worth it.
> > Sometime I just charged
> > with Doomwings straight into CC with the firestorms, and sucked up the
> > snap fire that way. So long
> > as the firestorms died.
> >
> -------> I thought there was some kind of restriction on flyers entering
> CC with ground units? Might work, but it takes a lot of flyers to kill a
> pair of firestorm batteries.
> > Incidentally, the best way to run doomwings is to line them up behind
> > each other on the baseline
> > just off of an objective your opponent is going to try to take. Then
> > you can fly straight ahead
> > and turn at the end of movement, covering that objective with flame.
> >
> > Of course their are counters to these sort of things, but unless your
> > opponent is playing a
> > balanced army, he won't have all of them. Thats why balance became so
> > important in our group; we
> > all learned how to wreck a cheesy army that kept showing up.
> >
> > > >Keep expensive infantry in buildings.
> > > ---------> Buildings? No building with infantry in it finishes the
> > turn
> > > standing in our games..Expensive Infantry? Yow...
> >
> > We usually played with the 2+ buildings. If your opponent tended to
> > take a bunch of building
> > killers, the you could probably keep infantry out in the open with
> > only a few losses per turn.
> > Building were too vulnerable in that game; the range should have been
> > from 0+ to 4+ saves.
> >
> > Also, you dont have to put a whole squad in one building if the
> > building were close enough. we
> > were more than willing to have one stand out in the open keeping uniti
> > coherency between two
> > buildings. (You didn't want to have too many people owing you money in
> > my army..)
> >
> -------> We usually had mixed building types, but considering any
> barrage weapon had a chance to drop 'em, that's still fairly risky.
> Eldar probably had the fewest normal barrage weapons of any army, but
> the titans could also advance up near a building, perhaps to a side
> where the inhabitants had no LOS, slap it with a power fist as they
> didn't have to be on charge orders to do this, probably collapsing it,
> and then hosing people behind it. Didn't happen every game, but it
> happened a few times.
> Against Imperial armies, this'll get you killed. Artillery,
> quake cannons, etc.
> > > Cheap infantry buffers; Guard your titans
> > > >and tanks with infantry. If nothing else, keep someone on advance
> > nearby to
> > > make
> > > >the opponent pay for his kills on your units.
> > > --------> Which Infantry is cheap for chaos - Cultists?
> >
> > Minotaurs, space marines, chaos squats. I never had any cultists, so I
> > don't know much about their
> > abilities.
> >
> -----> Cultists were just like IG tac troopers. I might point out the
> above, in additoin to being cheap, is also slow, only the marines have
> any decent transports, and all are extremely beatable in CC by the
> Eldar. For the walking troops, you could keep them away from objectives
> just by spraying a bunch of doomweavers into the area. The webs persist
> for a few turns and troops cannot willingly enter them, so they get to
> walk around. If someone manages to place an objective in the middile of
> a bunch of buildings, even better, as the webs are permanent when stuck
> on a building - you can seal off access from everything but flyers &
> skimmers.
>
> > > >Good tactics could win out against these cheese armies on a
> > regular basis.
> > > The
> > > >people who beat me regularly did not do it with any of this crap;
> > they did
> > > it with
> > > >normal armies well played.
> > > >
> > > >Thane
> > > >
> -------> The Eldar armies we played were mostly going to sit back and
> shoot you to death before your troops could get into HTH. A few select
> opbjectives would be swarmed with bikes and falcons full of scorps,
> banshees, harlies, and exarchs, probably along with a few warlocks.
> Tempests would pick off the tougher units, like LOB's while titans would
> zap GD's or Chaos titans, and Bike Swarms would either engage the weaker
> chaos stuff at the back like cannons and squats or mass-swarm a titan in
> a good spot for a critical reactor failure. At least one falcon element
> or an entire second host would stay on pop-up to deal with targets
> unworthy of the tempests or knock down titan shields. A spirit host
> would hold one end of the board with the wraithguard keeping cc'ers off
> while the dreads with their -2 save mod took out tough guys or titan
> shields and a warlock kept the nasties away. Massed _guardian_ fire
> could keep chaos CC troops away as with a 50cm range you'd always get at
> least 2 chances for a shot, depending on terrain effects Weenies trying
> to hide in buildings or woods either were nuked with barrage weapons or
> webbed to death with doomweavers.
>
> > The Eldar CC troops rarely were fielded against me.
> ----------> Extreme variance from the norm, at least the norm down
> here...they popped out of falcons & serpents all the time.
> > I always kept Fliers up high to crush the wave
> > serpents if they strayed across center board, and that's a lot of
> > points with stricking scopions
> > on board.
> ---------> Someone needed some Nightwings, sounds like. Or just a falcon
> host/tempest host on FF. I honestly never had much problem with the
> chaos flyers, as any army - Eldar, imperials, or even orks. The
> Doomwings flame template is only 25cm long, putting them within range of
> about every unit in the game, and their armor save isn't that good, so
> their only defense is that to hit modifier, which stops some infantry,
> but not anything even slightly nasty. If the target gets a shot off
> before the 'wing, it's usually toast. You don't even need to counter
> them with flyers - the target or something in it's vicinity would break
> them even if they did get off the first shot. You basically got one
> attack with them, then they died. Talk about bolters killing the avatar
> - that's how I killed most of the Chaos flyers - they kill a few
> infantry stands, then the survivors fire back...
> > The Avatar was always present; I always made it a goal to kill it with
> > a bolter. It was
> > a little game we played within the game; could the avatar kill
> > anything before a bolter killed it.
> > Chaos Squats were great for this, because you got a bunch of weak
> > shots for few points, they could
> > stay out of range from the psychic lance, and you didn't want to waste
> > real weapons on an avatar.
> > I also used them for stipping shields from Eldar titans; my weak shots
> > always went for the wings
> > or shoulders.
> -------->< Yeah, the avatar was pretty much chrome. People were always
> surprised that he was free... until they'd played a few times.
> As for nuking Eldar Phantoms, I found those Cannons of Khorne with
> unlimited range and a -4 save mod were pretty effective.
>
> > God, I miss those games. My biggest embarassment was playing against
> > eldar; he hid a jetbike
> > behind a building corner that had an objective; I thought I had won
> > because I had surrounded the
> > objective at about 6 cm with various troops, then he smuggly lifted
> > the building to show the bike
> > hiding in the corner. Serves me right for not walking around the table
> > more! He still tells anyone
> > I'm playing against about that story, even though he stopped playing
> > when they cut off the
> > miniature line...
> >
> > Thane
> ------> Heh. that's a sneaky thing to do, but if you can't be bothered
> to look...
> Anyway none of this is hostile in tone, I hope - I just don't
> understand what your Eldar player was doing with his troops while you
> were doing all this to him, as Eldar vs Chaos has been a foregone
> conclusion for so long around here and other places. I don't know if it
> was his army selection, bad rolls, or what, but most of the things you
> point out are fairly standard Chaos tricks - the Thunderhawk of disease,
> the thunderhawk as Vortex transport, marines are good, etc - so they
> shouldn't be too big of a surprise. A new trick could work on anyone
> once, but if it works over and over on the same person, there's a
> problem somewhere
> We had 4 different people rotate through Chaos trying different
> things - no titans, mostly titans, tons of flyers and t-hawks, etc and
> other than a few times when we were learning how to play, Chaos rarely
> won. The one way they could win consistently was by taking some traitor
> Imperial guard units - you know, a rebellion. Adding an artillery
> company with some support, or even a heavy weapons company made a pretty
> drastic change.
> House rules and varying interps can make a big difference, but the
> only things I see are titan battlegroups for chaos(which we usually
> allowed also so no big deal there), how you handled pop-ups (not sure if
> any difference there), and the LOB's being a command unit which I think
> isn't right as I believe it says somewhere he _has_ to be on advance or
> charge orders (I'll have to look through stuff), and the LOB thing isn't
> crucial. The pop-up issue is, though. Maybe that's it.
>
> Chris Miller


OK, OK,OK. I only play against altustic 4 year olds. I know no tactics.
I constantly change the rules to suit my own purpose. I cheat,
endlessly. I use the same tactics as everyone else, but for the above
reasons I win. It has nothing to do with the order of actions, command
rules, psychology tricks and setting traps. I'm a sham.....I never tryto
have an intellegent tactics conversation again.

Hey everyone, isn't E40K cool!!!!!! Where do I buy more?!?!

Thane the Big Fat Liar
Received on Thu Feb 26 1998 - 03:36:50 UTC