RE: [NetEpic ML] DE overview

From: <jyrki.saari_at_...>
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:15:29 +0300

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Peter Ramos [mailto:primarch_at_...]
> Sent: 10. October 2001 16:53
> To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [NetEpic ML] DE overview
>
>
> Hi!
>
> His the complete overview of existing DE material. Members
> should choose
> the stats they prefer and/or suggest changes.
>
> Overall rules
>
> Prisoners
>
> The Dark Eldar almost always take prisoners during their
> raids. When a
> unit in close combat with the Dark Eldar is broken, and fails
> it's moral
> (fallback orders), roll 1d6 for any stands still in Close
> Combat with a
> Dark Eldar stand in the end phase, on a roll of 4+ the stand is taken
> prisoner and the Dark Eldar player awarded 1 victory point.
>
> As the rules stand, you gain 1 VP per stand that is captured.
> Is this a
> bit much? Why not one roll for the whole unit and then apply
> the VP bonus?
>
> DE powers
>
> The Dark Eldar infantry have several advantages unique to them:
>
> Fleet of foot- this permits infantry to move an additional 5
> cm during a
> charge move.
> Shadowed skin- they may only fired upon if the firing unit is
> within 25 cm
> Combat drugs- roll once on the following table and apply the
> results to
> the unit
>
> I don't have a problem with "fleet of foot" an extra 5 cm
> when ONLY on
> charge orders is okay. Shadowed skin is problematic, since you could
> only fire at them if within 25 cm. Perhaps it should be restricted to
> some units and not others. It could be a very powerful advantage.
>

More specifically to Mandrakes, since they are the only ones in the DE Codex
to have shadow skin.

General comment: There seems to be a tendency to givce the Dark Eldar a 15cm
base move. Remember that of the normal Eldar only the Swooping Hawks have a
15 cm base move, and they have _flight packs_!

> Combat drugs- this could lead to a lot of bookkeeping, but
> otherwise I
> don't see a huge problem here.
>

Why don't we make combat drug cards, like the kustom repair, hive mind and
chaos cards we already have. The cards could be played at certain units
during the game just like hive mind and chaos cards. The DE player would
receive a certain number of cards depending on the number of units he has
capable of using them.


> Infantry
>
> Decide which set of stats to use from the following:
>
[snip]
> Warrior 10 cm None +1 Splinter Rifles 50 cm 2 5+ 0

This one is better. However, the splinter rifles are no more rapid firing
than IG lasguns, so I would drop the attack dice to 1.

>
[snip]
> Scourge 15 cm None +2 Lascan. 50 cm 2 5+ -1 Skimmer

Change the lascannon to a dark lance and you are all set.

>
[snip]
> Wych 15 cm None +3 Splinter Pistols/ CC Weapons 25 cm 2 5+ 0 Combat
> Drugs Elite

Definetely this one.

>
> Grotesque 15 - +4 None - - - - Elite, Stupidity, Special Rules
> Grotesque 10 cm 5+Fix +5 CC Weapons N/A N?A N/A N/A Stupidity
> Toughness
[Snippety snap]

I don't quite like either, so here's my suggestion:
Grotesque
move: 10 cm
Save: 5+; cannot be modified further than 6+.
CAF: +4
Weapons: None
Range: None
To-hit: N/A
Save mod: None
Notes: Stupid, Horrifying

Stupid: The pain all Grotesques have suffered has numbed their minds. If a
Dark Eldar command unit is not within 10cm of a Grotesque unit at the orders
phase roll a d6:

1: The Grotesques just stare ahead stupidly or torture themselves for fun.
The unit has no orders.
2-3: The Grotesques amble off towards the nearest enemy. The unit has
advance orders.
4-6: The Grotesques run screaming towards the nearest enemy unit intent on
causing as much pain as possible. The unit has Charge orders.

Horrifying: A Grotesque looks so terrible that enemy units charged by a unit
of Grotesques must make a morale check or go on fall back orders.

[snip]
> Mandrake 15 cm None +4 Splinter Pistols/ CC Weapons 25 cm 2
> 5+ 0 Shadow
> Skinned Fleet of Foot
>


> Helion 20 - +2 Hellglaive 50 1 5+ - Skimmer, Combat Drugs,
> Special Rules
[snip]


>
> Incubi 10 6+ +6 Tormentor Helm/ Punisher 25 1 5+ - Elite
[snip]

>
[snip]
> Haemonculus 15 - +4 Stinger /Destructor 25/Template 1/4 -1/
> (template) 4
> 0 Special Rules, Commander, Elite Ignores cover to hit
>

Let's alter a bit:
Move: 10cm
Save: None
CAF: +4
Weapons: Destructor
Range: Flamer template
To-hit: 5+
Save Modifier: None
Notes: Commander, Elite Ignores cover to hit

[snip]
> Beast Master 15 - +4 Splinter pistol/Agoniser 25 2 5+ -
> Commander, Elite
> Combat drugs Special Rules
>
[snap]
> This elite troop controls Warp Beast packs and is enhanced
> with Combat
> Drugs. They are very fast because they need to be able to
> keep up with
> the Warp Beasts. The Beast Master is a deadly CC unit and
> must be with
> 10 cm of the pack she controls. The Beast Master moves and
> shoots like a
> command unit but can be targeted normally.
>
> Warp beast 25 - +5 None - - - - Special Rules
[snap]

Drop the move to 20cm

[Snap]
> OR
>
> Warp Beasts are incredibly fast even by Dark Eldar standards. Warp
> beasts move through difficult terrain just like infantry do, and may
> enter buildings. If the beastmaster is slain the Warp Beasts
> will charge
> the nearest unit (friend or foe) in the Dark Eldar players turn, and
> enter close combat with them. If the pack is forced to fall
> back after
> the Beastmaster is slain, they will return to the warp, and
> are removed
> from play.
>
> These units only exist in one version of the rules
>
> Succubi 15 - +4 Splinter Pistol 25 2 5+ - Commander, Elite,
> Combat Drugs

> Dracon 15 6+ +4 Terrorfex/Splinter pistol 35 4+ special/ 25 2 5+ -1
> Command unit, Elite, Soul seeker ammunition, ignores cover

> Sybarite 15 - +2 Dark Lance 75 2 5+ Special Commander, Elite,
> Special Rules

> Archon 10 cm 5+Fix +6 Destructor Cannon 50 cm 50 cm 4+ -2
> Command Elite
> Psychic Save Morale Bonus



> Dark Warlock 10 cm None 0 Shredder Pistol 25 cm 2 5+ 0 Command Psyker

How about "Dark seer"?


> Dark Eldar Lord 15 4+ Fixed +6 Splinter Pistol 25 2 5+ -
> Commander, Elite
>
> * Shadowed: This power enables the psyker to hide one
> detachment or unit
> (not company) from the enemy. The shadowed units appear to flicker in
> out of their shadows thus making them more difficult to hit
> and fight in
> close combat. When this is used the unit must be within 50 cm of the
> psyker. The effects last for 1 turn. All enemy units must
> roll a 4+ on
> 1d6 in order to shoot at Shadowed units. If successful they
> may do so at
> -1. Shadowed units in close combat receive a +2 bonus to their CAF.
>
> * Blinded: This enables the psyker to blind one unit (not
> detachment) in
> a shroud of darkness. Command targeting does not apply. The shroud of
> darkness will follow the unit for one turn. The affected unit cannot
> fire or engage in close combat but move. When moving, roll
> the scatter
> die for every 5 cm the unit travels and move it in the direction
> indicated. In addition, enemy units can't engage it nor fire
> at it. The
> psyker must roll a 4+ to be successful. Units that have a
> psychic save
> must make a successful psychic save roll to negate this effect. This
> power has a range of 50 cm.
> * Death Grip: This allows the psyker to attack one unit in a
> detachment
> within 25 cm. The warlock player must roll a 4+ on 1d6 to
> successfully
> attack the unit. If successful, the unit is automatically destroyed
> unless it has a psychic save. Titans and praetorians who lose
> their crew
> to this attack arena't destroyed but can't move and are at -1
> to hit for
> the rest of the game (there are still enough crew members to man the
> other posts.
>
> Fast attack, artillery and dreadnoughts
>
> Reaver Jetbike 35 - +3 Blaster 25 1 4+ - Skimmer, special rules

This is armed with a splinter rifle. Let's make it comparable to other
vehicle AP weapons:
Range: 25cm
To-hit: 6+
Save mod: none

[snip]

> Dark Reaper Jet Bikes 35 cm None +4 Splinter Cannons 25 cm 2 5+ -1
> Combat Drugs
>

Dark Reapers are the Eldar aspect warriors, so how about just Reaper? This
could be the DE "Vyper".

[snip]
> Talos 20 cm 4+ +5 Splinter Cannons Splinter Guns 75 cm 4 4 -2
> / 15 cm 4
> 5+ 0 Skimmer
>


> Only one version of these:
>
> Shadow Guard 10 cm 6+Fix +2 Splinter Cannon 50 cm 1 5+ -1
> Special Orders

Dark Stalkers?

> Shadow Dreads 15 cm 5+ +3 Dark Lances 50 cm 1 4+ -2 Special Orders

Shadow Lord? Dark Lord?

> Shadow Walkers 25 cm None +1 Lascan./Splinter Guns 75 cm 1 5+
> -2 / 25 cm
> 3 5+ 0
> Anti-grav Splinter Cannon 10 cm None -2 Splinter Cannon 75 cm 2 4+ -2
> Anti-grav Vibro Cannon 10 cm None -3 Vibro Cannon 75 cm 1 Special -1

I would drop these three; IMO they make the DE too "eldarish". True, there
should be similarities, but these should not be overdone or we get what is,
in essence, just another craftworld army.


> Special Rules
> Splinter Launcher 20 cm 5+ 0 Splinter Mortar 100 cm 1 2 BP's
> -1 Skimmer
>
> Vehicles
>
[snip]
> Raider 30 5+ 0 Dark Lance 75 1 5+ Special Skimmer, carries 2 stands,
> Special Rules

Open topped; crew bail out save reduced by 1.

>
> Special rules in one version of rules
>
> The Raider is armed with a Dark Lance, this weapon fires a
> beam of dark
> energy that annihilates anything it hits. Its especially effective
> against heavily armored vehicles, who thick armor plates offer no
> protection against the beam. Due to its unique nature targets
> with a 4+
> or better save are treated as a 5+.
>

Why not give it a save modifier of -3 and +2 to damage rolls?


[snip]
> Ravager 25 4+ 0 Dark lance/Disintegrator 75 2 5+ Special /
> Special Skimmer
>
> Special rules in one version of rules
>
> The disintigrator fires a small particle of dark matter in
> much the same
> way as an imperial plasma cannon fires super heated plasma. It is
> however a much more sophisticated weapon and can be set to
> either fire a
> large bolt or bursts of smaller shots.
>
> Weapons Range Attack Dice Roll To Hit TSM
> Maximal 75 1 3+ -3
> Sustained 50 3 5+ -1
>


> The following two units have only one version:
> Corsair 20 cm 2+ +4 Destructor Cannons/Splinter Guns 75 cm 2
> 4+ -20 / 25
> cm 2 5+ 0 Skimmer

Drop the save to 3+. The weak armor should be one of the main weaknesses of
a DE army.

> Raptor 25 4+ 0 Dark Lance 75 1 5+ Special Skimmer, carries 2 stands.

Too similar to the Raider. IMHO not needed.

>
> Only one version:
> Super Heavies
> Shadow 30 2+* +4 ShadowCannonSplinter 100 cm 1 3+ Special 75
> cm 2 5+ -1
> Skimmer, super heavy, +3 to Dmg rolls.

This should be a special card. The DE don't seem to be lugging too much
heavy equipment around...


> Shadow Stalker 25 3+ +8 Dark lance/Webblaster/Splinterblaster
> 75 cm 4 5+
> Special Knight, Shadow field, template template 3+ 0, 15 cm 6 6+ 0
> Webway portal.
>

What does the Shadow field do? Or the Webway portal? Also a special card for
the reasons mentioned above...

> DE contribution
>
[Snip]
>
> Titans I will leave for separate discussion
>
Flyers (from Imperial Armour 2):

Raven (Ho hum! How dull a name; how about Night Witch? Tormentor? Ghost?)
Move: 115cm
Save: 5+
CAF: +5
Weapons:

Long barrelled Splinter cannon
Range: 50cm
Attack d:2
To-hit:5+
Save Mod: -1

Dark Lance
Range: 50cm
Attack d:1
To-hit:4+
Save Mod: -3, +2 to damage rolls


Razorwing
Move: 90cm
Save: 4+
CAF: +2
Weapons:

Heavy Terrorfex:
Range: 50cm
Attack d:Barrage template
To-hit:4BP
Save Mod: special
If any models under the template are hit, the unit must pass a morale check
or go on fall back orders. The check is modified by -1 for any models hit in
excess of one. Since the Terrorfex produces psychic hallucinations, a
succesful psychic save by ANY member of the unit negates the need to make a
morale check.

Dark Lance
Range: 50cm
Attack d:2
To-hit:4+
Save Mod: -3, +2 to damage rolls

Long barrelled Splinter cannon
Range: 50cm
Attack d:2
To-hit:5+
Save Mod: -1

Jyrki Saari

-There is no such thing as free lunch because eating takes time and time is
money.
Received on Thu Oct 11 2001 - 08:15:29 UTC