----- Original Message -----
From: "Darryl Hilbig" <darrylhilbig_at_...>
To: <netepic_at_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] Combining Empire forces
> It sounds like you are also in favour of the IG being the backbone of any
> force with the other Imp Lists forming a support role.
Well, I cannot assume a Planetary invasion force composed only of a SM
Chapter. It's absurd. IMO their role should be the same as a precision
needle, not a Chainsaw. Imperial troops are cheap and expendable, SM are
not. In a big battle, the empire cannot allow losing half a chapter unless
under extreme circumstances, so, even if SM are the main attack force, they
should be supported by some cannon fodder. Empire is cruel but that 's how
it works (I repeat IMO).
>
> You seem to have a handle on it and these tend to work for one offs (is
that
> hwo you use them?) but, how do they handle a campaign setup or am I
assuming
> that you have really huge battles when you tend to run smaller campaigns.
We had this rules to allow some "fluff" in the game. Some other players
in my group think that some Chaos powers cannot be fielded togheter in the
same battle because they would forget about the enemy and fight themselves.
But it's a matter of criteria. We have this four rules for "official" games,
which means serious battles, tournaments (we will organize a serious
one...some day) and so...Noone will come and put you a gun on your head if
you play Blood Angels against Space Wolves, we just call them training
games, because they have no other meaning
The biggest battle I've played was a 25k battle Imperium vs Orks with two
Imperators in my side. There were 2 MegaGargants one Great G. Battlegroup,
one Slasha G. BattleGroup and I think there was a Mekboy Gargant somewhere
in the field doing weird things but I'm not quite sure...
Just imagine this game only with SM, there aren't enough Marines in the
Chapter to fight so if you want to be consistent you have to bring allies,
either other SM chapters or other Imperial Forces.
One Offs are one offs, you can play whatever you like, even bugs vs.
bugs. If you want to try SM vs. SM you can. But when you play bigger
campaigns (let's say five battles of 4k-6k plus a final one of 10k), you'll
find that playing SM only is impossible for logical reasons.
You have only around 1000 men to fight (that's 200 stands / 10
Companies). If you lose a 6k game with heavy loses (say 80%: 4-5 companies)
you have three choices: Ignore fluff and logic and play next game with all
companies, bring another chapter to fight or fight with a decimated force
that won't stand a third game.
If you are able to ally with IG you will probably use SM more wisely,
because of their limited numbers. Once you lose a Terminator Detachment, you
cannot field the whole company, and perhaps it will be needed in the final
assault to the hive nest (for exemple).
Anyway, remeber that those rules can be ignored for campaign reasons
(say, the Chapter Homeworld is attacked and no help will come for one week),
but normally we fight on smaller (3k -5k) skirmish battles, normally SM on
my side with some IG cannon fodder and ending the campaign with one or two
big battles 8k-12k where I can rely on Titans and Artillery to support SM
flanking.
So in the end, most campaigns with one imperial side will include always
IG (or PDF if defending) as expendable troops. Perhaps you can limit IG to
non specialized infantry, or forbid some cards, but the flavour is that you
are fielding a big army with lots of cannon fodder plus some elite units to
attack/defend critical points.
In conclusion: you'll find that in the end, they allow unlimited alliance
for IG and SM for 10k or less, but I find it logic and consistent with
fluff. Use them or not at your choice.
Albert
>
> Darryl H
>
> >From: Albert Farr� Benet <cibernyam_at_...>
> >I agree in part with you.
> >
> >We have the following house rules:
> >
> >1. The limit of SM armies in Battle is 10000 pts. Although a full SM
> >Chapter is worth more than 10000 pts no commander will be fool enough to
> >send everybody and forget about reserves or covering units to protect the
> >back of the army. This "protecting" units are not present in the game
field
> >as they play no role.
> >
> >2. Only in very special circumstances two SM chapters fight together. So
we
> >don't allow more than one company card of other chapters. That's ONLY ONE
> >company, so playing Blood Angels and purchasing RavenWing forbid's the
use
> >of DeathWing, Space Wolves or any other SM army.
> >
> >3. IG can be purchased without limit, following the normal rules (IG
> >support (and Special) cards must go with IG company cards). Note that
this
> >allows SM to take part in 10000+ pts games. It's quite clear that in big
> >battles SM should fulfill an assault (&Surgical strike) role supported
with
> >IG artillery and other units while in smaller fights they can easily
stand
> >on their own
> >
> >4. Tech Guard (& Titan Legions) cannot be more than 25% of the total army
> >strength.
> >
> >Exceptionally this can be (over and under)limited due to campaign fluff
> >(two chapters together, etc...)
> >
> >We don't normally allow Titan legions on their own but as half TL and
half
> >IG
> >
> >Albert
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: jyrki.saari_at_...
> > To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 10:06 AM
> > Subject: RE: [NetEpic ML] Combining Empire forces
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ext Darryl Hilbig [mailto:darrylhilbig_at_...]
> > > Sent: 26. November 2001 20:24
> > > To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] Combining Empire forces
> > >
> > >
> > > IMO (I'm to shy to be humble)the following restrictions
> > > should apply to
> > > combined Imperial Forces (or even their Chaos Equivalents:
> > >
> > > SPACE MARINES:
> > > Are an elite formation and as such should be limited to 25%
> > > to 33% of a
> > > total force in a battle or campaign.
> > > They are supposed to be used for those tough jobs like
> > > Beachheads, Deep
> > > Strike Assaults, vanguard on a relief force etc.
> > > I see them as being similar to (in Military Forces parlance)
> > > the Special
> > > Forces in modern armies e.g. Green Berets, SAS, Red Berets,
> > > Commandoes,
> > > Spetznaz, Republican Guard etc to name a few. These units
> > > are relatively
> > > few in number compared to the rest of the Defence Forces of
> > > the armies they
> > > belong to.
> > >
> > [snip]
> >
> > The problem with Space Marines is that they are not true special
forces
> >in the sense SAS, SEALs and Spetznaz are. Rather, they're a cross between
> >special forces and a rapid deployment force, usually forming the first
wave
> >of reinforcements. The marines have been used in normal military
operations
> >many times during Imperial history in a way no true special forces would
> >ever have been. Black Templars, for example, are constgantly "liberating"
> >planets completely on their own without any support from the regular
armed
> >forces (IG and Navy).
> >
> > If Imperium has any true special forces it's the Grey Knights and
Mentor
> >Legion.
> >
> > Jyrki Saari
>
>
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Received on Mon Dec 03 2001 - 18:11:32 UTC