RE: [NetEpic ML] Ogre Update

From: <jyrki.saari_at_...>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:12:29 +0200

[snip]
> My thoughts (starting from the front working backwards):
>
> o Feel free to dump any of the fluff text that doesn't fit
> (and/or modify
> it appropriately).
>

Ok.
 
> o Special Rules
> + Dump the advanced targeting computers, they just aren't
> fun (where's the
> fun in hitting what you aim at!).

I thought this was a bit powerful, you could always hit the legs with this
rule.

> + Keep the Anti-Aircraft Ability, it's thematic given Ogre fluff.
> (Aircraft are no longer viable given that ground troops
> can shoot them down so easily (they are suicide craft)).

Ok.


> + Dump the Anti-Artillery ability. I threw it in orignally because I
> thought it was silly that nobody had it.

The counterbattery fire is admittedly one of the things missing in NetEpic.
I would not drop this rule, as it could be done even in WWI. However, the
scatter distance should be increased to 2d6.

> + AP weapons stay the same (although move them all to 5+ to
> hit (I think
> you did this already), and change the Ogre's to only roll 1 dice).

1 attack die per AP weapon?

> + Lack of Psychics, keep that (also a thematic thing).

Definetely, seeing psychichs should be a great shock to people not used to
them.

> + GEV, keep this as a thematic element. Also it's not much different
> than the ability to do pop-up attacks.
>
> o Infantry needs playtesting. Perhaps increase their save to 5+.
>
> o Special Units
> + Command Post, I don't have a problem with it's ability,
> but I'm also
> not wedded to it. I'm fine with it just being an
> additional objective
> that starts in the hands of the Heathen force. Could also be
> made just a scenario thing.
>

We could use the mobile command post from Ogre miniatures game. The command
post could actually be made a weakness as well; since the command post is
the hub of the local C&C network its destruction would have devastating
short-term efects. How about this: if the command post is destroyed all
units except Ogres must roll a die in the next orders phase. On 4+ they may
be given orders normally, otherwise they are on no orders. Also, all units
take any morale checks they must make with a -1 modifier during that turn.
After that it is assumed the network has been patched up somehow so there is
no effect in the subsequent turns.

> o Vehicles
> + I like the weapon names! :-)

Glad to hear it. I tried to make them more futuristic.

> + Needs playtesting. In Ogre, the Heavy Tanks weapon has the same
> strength as an Ogre's Primary but less range (IIRC). The Ogre's
> shoots another hex further. This is why I orignally had it with
> a range of 75cm.
>

I see. I just wanted to emphasize the high-tech nature of the army.

> o Artillery
> + I'm worried that the BP's are a little too high. Perhaps cut the
> Howitzers down to 3x2BP. This would make a single
> Howitzer equivalent
> to a whole detachment of Basilisks.
>

IMO this would be a good change. Will implement.

> o Super Heavies no comment until playtested.
>
> o Ogres
> + Ogre's Sentience, I have mixed thoughts on this. I'd be willing to
> let the Ogre be affected in a similiar way as Eldar Titans
> to psychic
> attacks (especially with the Ogrethulhu coming out soon
> (new Chaos Optional
> unit!)).

Eldar titans do have a crew whereas an Ogre is a pure AI. The computer has
no mind, in the human/alien sense, which would be affected by such an
attack. Nor does it have a soul. Imperial robots are not affected by
psychics.

> Movement should also be halfed (or stated that
> it's already
> doubled in the stats).

Oops! Forgot to do that.

> + Ogre Maneuvability, start at 180 degrees worth of turns, lose 45
> degrees each track line destroyed. Moves 1/2 speed backwards.

This is a good one.

> + AP weapons, I'd be tempted to change to throwing 1 dice
> instead of 2.

Might be a good change. The larger beasts would still have plenty of those.

> + Missiles change to 6BP instead of 9, maybe lower the TSM to -2.
> (As it stands now, these things are vicious).

Ok.

> + Should secondary batteries drop to 1 dice? I have mixed
> thoughts about
> this. In my testbeds secondary batteries are really nasty (tearing
> apart entire Leman Russ companies!). This would also make them
> equivalent to a light tanks weapon (which appeals to me slightly).
> So a Light Tank == Secondary Battery, Heavy Tank ==
> Primary Battery.

I'd rather not change these. Ogres have tremendously high power output
compared to the tanks and so the Ogres' weapons should bein their own
category altogether, just like Titan and Vehicle weapons are.

> + Ogre MKIIIb is also currently available from Steve Jackson
> games (or soon
> will be (It's on my Christmas list!)).

Good! What do you think about my model suggestions, BTW?


> + I like what you did with the Secondary/Primary Batteries. One
> thing I noticed while running my testbeds was that it took
> forever to strip off the Ogre's batteries. (My gut feeling is
> that Ogre games have alot more turns than NetEpic games). So
> I suspect this is a good thing. You did mean to do this right?

Yep.

> + Change AP damage so that it reduces AP dice by 2 (or 1 if
> we reduce AP's
> to 1 dice). Possibly adding a 4+ which strips 2 AP's off
> (maybe a 6+
> which strips 3 off). Make a note that the AP damage table isn't
> effected by penetrating damage. See my comment above about #'s of
> turns in Netepic compared to Ogre for my reasoning.

Ok. I'll also add tables for tracking available weapons.

> + Change the flashback in the primary hit and the secondary hits to
> (1-3 cybernetic core, 4-6 reactor hit), removing the no effect.

Ok.

> + Add 1 to all the saving throws. So Connings would be 1+, Primaries
> 1+, Secondaries 2+, AP's 4+, Treads 4+, Missiles 3+.

Missile racks 2+. Those are better protected than the rails.

>
> o General Ogre thoughts:
> If the goal is to make the Ogre's comparable to Titans,
> something needs
> to be done about their massive firepower (reduce it or something).
> If we're willing to say a single Ogre is the equivalent of 2 Titans,
> then it's probably fine (although pt values for the MK III will be
> around 1200 pts, the MK V even higher (2000+?)). I'm of mixed minds
> on what I'd prefer to see. I'd like to keep Ogre tough
> (since that's
> thematic), while I'd like to keep them low enough in points
> that they
> are fieldable (since I already have 2).

I'd leave the Ogres at the current power level. They're supposed to
represent one of the cutting-edge technologies of the Dark age of Technology
and as such should be, well, terrible to oppose. However, I'd drop the Ogre
brigade. These things were never that plentiful.

>
> o And the most important thought!
> You've done a great job so far!
>

Thanks! I'm doing my best.

> Those are my current thoughts.
>
> DarylL
>


Jyrki Saari

-There is no such thing as free lunch because eating takes time and time is
money.
Received on Fri Dec 14 2001 - 09:12:29 UTC