RE: [NetEpic ML] Regarding Epic40K- Armageddon Playtest

From: <jyrki.saari_at_...>
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:54:13 +0200

[snip]
> Remember that not all 300 subscribers to list this list are players
> of net-epic! I suspect there are many like myself who just lurk here
> to keep an eye on all you damn heretics :) ... and pick up some cool
> rule or miniatures ideas now and again.
>

Hmmmm, it sems we have been infiltrated. Oh well, that inquisitoral purge is long overdue anyway :P

Seriously, here's what I think.

> I for one have no desire to return to the turgid shooting duels of
> editions before E40k (the One True Game). Why resolve firing of 3
> tanks at a time when you could resolve the fire of an entire company
> in the same time?

Because to me Epic isn't company-level game. Why have individual half-squads and command units if you're going to do the shooting at company level? Why not just have company markers?
  
> Why have several dice rolls to resolve hitting and
> armour effects when it can all be rationalised into a single die
> roll?

At this level (with individual vehicles) that is IMO way too abstract. When I want that I play a game of Spear Head or Modern Spear Head.
  
> Why issue orders to platoons when you should be issuing them
> to whole companies?

See above.
  
> The name of the game is Epic not Squad Leader.
> Space Marine reminds me too much of those old moderns and ww2 rules
> where u had to roll to spot a target, then roll to hit, then roll to
> penetrate, then make individual morale tests for tiny little sections
> of your force... uh! no thanks...
>

I'd rather do that, but then again it is just a matter of style. I prefer more detailed games to the "Risky" ones. As for the morale, it is _really_ rare of a whole company break at the same time. Usually the erosion happens one coherent unit (platoon) at a time.

> Also a number of 'realism' factors annoyed me about Space Marine...
> Why do you always have to kill something to affect morale, and why
> can troops move even under heavy fire?! I'm not sure if net-epic
> addresses these mind u.

Killing something is a prime way to affect morale. However, you are right about suppression. It is one of the major things missing in the NetEpic and will probably contionue to do so. However, in E40k it is as easy to suppress Land Raiders as infantry or even more so. And I really don't think tanks care that much about lasgun fire.

> Also the play balance and character of
> armies in E40k (with a few exceptions) appeals to me a lot more in
> E40k than it did in space marine. Eg. Eldar really capture the feel
> of a swift deadly, but brittle rapier that needs to choose when and
> where it strikes with care... hit and fade. Beats the old eldar 'tie
> things up with aspects and bikes and shoot them from a distance' of
> the previous editon.
>

Yes, but the character of different weapon systems has totally been lost. Now everything is just "moving firepower" with no difference whatsoever between vehicles and infantry. That and the possibility of hodgepodge detachments with tanks infantry and bikes doesn't exactly appeal to me.

> The changes Jervis is proposing sound to me like they still leave
> good macro level mechanics and game play, but add more 'realism' if
> that is the right word for a science fantasy game... Weapons
> specialised against either infantry or armour (something that bugged
> me more in theory than practice about E40k), and the flanking rules
> which is not something that I had considered much. Also the unit
> activation system sounds interesting, if we could do away with order
> counters/dice I would be very happy.
>

I have no problem whatsoever with the proposed changes except that they should've been present from the start.

> I do agree with comments made here about the sort of audience Epic
> appeals to. I and many other historical gamers cruised into Epic,
> especially when E40k was released, in spite of enormous difficulties
> because of the crappy release schedules and marketing... we do not
> play other GW games, though BFG and warmaster have their appeal...
>

Warmaster is probably the best GW game ever to see the light of day. BFG is quite nice although the starships are obviously from the pre-dreadnought era, but still...

> I also agree that the netepic list is a very pleasant bunch of
> people, as is the epic list... In fact I have remarked on other lists
> that if they want to see an example of netiquette with never a flame
> in sight they should join the epic list... totally seriously.
>
> Anyway looks like the soul of epic is up for grabs... the die is
> cast, hats are in the ring :) Maybe its time I and others told
> Jervis that we do actually like much of his E40k mechanics! Gotta
> stop u netepic guys sticking in rules giving gretchin stands 3 attack
> types including a 'pet squig attack' and the like ;)
>

3? Bah, we're going to add the pet squig's cyber-flea attack, the Orky Breath, tossed fungus beer cans and Nobz' armpit chemical weapon for starters. After we get to monday morning we will _really_ get evil :P

> Markco
>
> P.S. I have shown netepic to a fair number of people over the last
> couple of years so I'm not all bad... :)

Our interrogator-chaplain promises to kill you quickly if you repent ;)

> Look foward to jousting with u guys anyway...
>
>


Jyrki Saari

-There is no such thing as free lunch because eating takes time and time is money.
Received on Mon Feb 18 2002 - 12:54:13 UTC