Re: [NetEpic ML] [v5.0] HQ hitting (my proposal) (long)

From: Albert Farr� Benet <cibernyam_at_...>
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 20:06:16 +0200

I forgot, add to the end of X.Y.1.3. :
"If HQ unit belongs to unit targeted and all stands are killed, extra hits are allocated to HQ. Note that if HQ is not part of the unit only gets hit if no other units near (6 or 10 cm around)"

Side Note: Of course, if everyone is killed and there are shots left, SHQ is hit. In the other case, extra shots only go to HQ if there's no other stand near, which BTW covers the chance of firing a covered HQ, if all covering units are also shot. If there were other units, it's assumed the HQ was covered by them.

Albert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Albert Farr� Benet
  To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 7:37 PM
  Subject: [NetEpic ML] [v5.0] HQ hitting (my proposal) (long)


  Hi,

  you'd have to excuse me but I think this discussion has gone too far on "shooting to the HQ" rather than "HQ getting hits". The REAL problem is not shooting ten dice to HQ, this is unreal and worthless. You shot six, eight, ten, twelve dice on a group of troops and expect to have some kills and perhaps get a kill on an HQ. THIS is real. I don't like the idea of picking HQ units in the middle of other units unless very close to them or, of course, alone in the open with no troops around and a big flag saying "SHOOT ME, PLEASE" (If you do that with your HQ, you deserve to loose them).

  So far, thre proposals have gone this way:

  Option one: You can look for an HQ unit and shoot at it if you pass a roll of X+ (6,9, whatever) if you fail this roll, no chance of hitting HQ nor the troops around it. Sorry but this can be resumed in: NO SHOOTING AT HQ allowed. Plus, Your unit is stupid and doesn't shoot the units around the HQ if cannot spot it. Plus, you can wipe out an entire IG tactical platoon but one stand which of course will be the SHQ, because it is an HQ and cannot be shot.

  Option two: You can shoot at HQ but HQ gets a "sacrifice" save roll of 2+ and if passed another unit gets the hit. Well, might work, but figures mean that statistically HQ tend to be the last stand. Also quite unreal. Although I like the main idea for barrage attacks. Nice try. can be used with aproppiate changes.

  Option three: You can shoot at HQ if you can distinguish the mini from the surrounding troopers minis. THAT IS NOT NETEPIC, THAT HAS ANOTHER NAME. Sorry

  Option four: -X for the "to hit" roll. This one is tricky, because would work quite well, but it is not real. This is not WH40K, the "to hit" roll is not based in shooting ability nor weapon precision (at least on it's own). It defines both precision and chance of killing a target. Both a Multi-Melta, a Volcano Cannon or a Thunderer have the same 3+ to hit, but they have different `"real damage" on infantry. Also unreal then. An infantry stand armed with bolters at closer range would have a better chance of spotting (and killing) the HQ.

  Option five:?




  MY OPTION:

  Basic Rules: HQ units can only be shot if they are the closest target of it's pinning class or have no other unit (of the same pinning class) closer than 15 cm.


  Advanced Rules:

  X.Y.HQ spoting and hitting

  X.Y.1. Distance from HQ: (25 cm +) No chance of spotting an HQ. None. Nil. Zero. No way.
  Quite clear, I think. You cannot shot weapons directly at HQ. You can try to get a lucky shot firing at surrounding stands (See X.Y.1.3). Of course, you can shot at thwem if closer unit of pinning class or alone (no other troops in a 15 cm radius). HQ units on top of objectives are VALID targets.

      X.Y.1.1. Exception: Snipers. Specific rules for them.

      X.Y.1.2. Special Case: Barrage. I always considered barrage doesn't need to be placed on top of a model, but try to catch as many models as you can. Ok, we got an HQ unit under it. If the HQ is part of a detachment, add stands still alive outside from the barrage, plus any other stands (not under the barrage, of course) at 6 cm (Optional: 10 cm) or less of the HQ. Throw a dice and add number of stands, on a roll of 7+ the HQ was covered by another stand on the last instant and a randomly chosen stand is hit instead.
      (Optional) A roll of 1 always means the HQ was hit. Bad luck.

  Side Note 1: Note that an HQ with few units around it, is very vulnerable to barrage fire (like real life (TM)) and an HQ surrounded by a lot of units is quite difficult to be caught under the barrage.

      X.Y.1.3. Lucky Shot: When shooting a unit cointaining an HQ you can ask for a lucky shot.You can also ask for it if there's an HQ at less than 6 cm. (opt: 10cm) of targetted unit, but then you have to lose one atack die. If a unit containing an HQ, or a unit with an HQ at less than 6 cm is shot, throw a dice for each hit. Substract one to the result of each die for each stand present in the unit or at less than 6 cm (Opt: 10 cm) if it's from other units; on a roll of 4+ you got a lucky shot and the HQ was hit! otherwise a normal stand was hit Dice is throwed simultaneously.

  Side Note 2: Note that the reasoning is similar than that of S.N. 1. An HQ with few troopers will be more vulnerable to a curtain of a fire, than another one heavy guarded with other units

  Side Note 3: Here's the chance to have a lucky hit depending on the surrounding units.

  Surrounding units To hit HQ %
  1 4+ 50% (1/2)
  2 5+ 33% (1/3)
  3 6+ 16% (1/6)
  4 7+ 8,3% (1/12)
  5 8+ 5,5% (1/18)
  6 9+ 2,8% (1/36)
  7 10+ 1,4% (1/72)
  ...

  Note that beyond 2 units chances decrease drastically in favour of HQ units. You want a Lucky Shot, you have to shoot a lot. I think that protecting a bit more HQ units for game balance is reasonable
      
  X.Y.2 Distance from HQ: (25 cm -) You are close to them. You can almost distinguish their leaders, though you are not quite sure... You'll have to clear a bit the zone before perhaps...

  You can shoot directly at the HQ, BUT apply the previous cover rule for barrages (X.Y.1.2) (+1 for alive trooper in detachment, +1 for other trooper at 6cm or less from HQ). Dice is throwed sequentially. Thus, you have the option of clearing things up before going for their bosses. Unfortunately, going for the leader instead than for the whole group means the following: one attack dice is lost when firing for the HQ and any further shots once the HQ is dead are lost.

      X.Y.2.1. Barrages: Shooting a barrage from less than 25 cm is quite deadly, specially when you know exactly where you are shooting. A barrage fired from less than 25 cm can be shot at an HQ DIRECTLY if on FF orders (You saw them coming and you are close enough to spot where is their HQ, at least with a small error). Otherwise, follow same rules as for X.Y.1.2.

  Side Note 4: Note that the difference of Barrage and other weapons is that with non-barrage you need to know the exact position of the unit to fire at. With barrage you only need to know it with an error of some dozens of meters, which is quite reasonable at those distances with enough time to spot (Thus FF).

      X.Y.2.2. Indirect Barrages: Aply X.Y.1.2 even if observer is closer than 25 cm. (Optional)

  Side Note 5: Game Balance reasons. Discussion welcomed as always.

  What do you think? Some figures (like proximity of covering units) should be tested but I think is a good system because, HQ units are mostly impossible to target at long range, while still reasonably vulnerable whereas at close range they are far more vulnerable, which is balanced by the fact that closing to them should be dangerous. Please note that I thought about it a lot, there's no chance to abuse with IG or orks. If they go only for HQ they have to dedicate a lot of points on it and it won't be worth it. It's far more useful trying to kill some troops before attacking the SHQ (which is also more Real Life(TM)).

  Albert Farr�

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Received on Fri Apr 26 2002 - 18:06:16 UTC