Re: [v5.0] Imperial revision: marines part III [long]

From: antichrist666it <seimejote_at_...>
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 18:16:08 -0000

Comments below... =)

--- In netepic_at_y..., <jyrki.saari_at_n...> wrote:
> -> I'd really like to see the marine bike entry here. And I'd like
to see the CAF of the IG bike dropped at least by one. It has always
bothered me why IG with average CAF of 0 suddenly are as good in CC
as assault marines when they get to drive a motorcycle.

Agree, they should be CAF +2 only.
 
> Bike Squads
> Marines and Imperials sometimes enter battle mounted on motorcycles
armed with bolters. This augments their close combat skills as well
as maneuverability. They count as vehicles for terrain restrictions
but feature greater speed than regular vehicles in some types of
terrain (see terrain chart). Both Space Marine and Imperial Guard
armies use bikes.
> Models: Biker models on the GW Space Marine sprue, 2-3 to a stand.
>
> Move: 30 cm
> Save: 6+
> CAF: +3
> Weapons: Heavy Bolters
> Range: 15cm
> Att. D: 1
> To Hit: 6+
> TSM: 0
> Notes:
 
The weapon isn't the Heavy Bolter... just Bolters.

+++New Unit here+++

Scout Bikes
The tenth company of many Space Marine chapters maintains a force of
bikes. Some are employed to train new recruits who will eventually
join Bike squadrons as full battle-brothers, others are used to
provide highly mobile support for Scout squads behind enemy lines.
Scout Bikes are fitted with special noise suppressors, so may make an
Infiltration before battle begins.
Models: Biker models from the GW Space Marine sprue, 2-3 to a stand.

Move: 30 cm
Save: none
CAF: +2
Weapons: Bolters
Range: 15cm
Att. D: 1
to Hit: 6+
TSM: 0
Notes: Infiltration

> Dreadnoughts
> Through long millennia of their history, Space Marines developed
many types of the walking war machines to house the sarcophagi of
their ancient warriors who continue to serve their chapters in these
metal bodies of destruction. The most recent of these forms is the
well-armored sturdy looking Scatolo, which is capable of mounting a
variety of weapons. Its predecessor is the still widely used model of
the Punisher (this replaces the standard Dreadnought of previous
NetEpic versions). The still earlier designs are lighter, sleeker
humanoid units, based off the same general body from, with different
load-out variants. The Contemptor is a close assault unit, with quad
bolters, the Deredeo carries a missile launcher for general heavy
weapon support, and the Furibundus carries a lascannon for anti-
vehicular work. Due to their size Dreadnoughts count as walkers for
terrain restrictions.
> Models: The models that inspired the above types are the new metal
Dreadnought models of the GW for the Scatolo variants, older plastic
ones of the SM/TL range (unavailable now) for the Punisher, and the
metal models listed under own names in the GW UK catalog for
Contemptor, Deredeo, and Furibundus. However, feel free to use any
suitable 1/300 model you have from GW and other ranges.
>
> ->When looking at the stats below (the Scatolo) I'd say that the
only thing these need is a more speedy way to get into combat. The
solution IMO is to allow the dreads use drop pods. The thought of a
dreadnought hanging onto a Rhino is just plain comical IMO.

Agree. Drop Pods AND Thunderhawks.

>
> Dreadnoughts
>
> Scatolo (heavy)
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 4+
> CAF: +1
> Weapons: Lascannons
> Range: 75cm
> Att. D: 2
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: -2
> Notes:
>
> -> This kind of Dread can only have one twin-linked lascannon in
40k. I suggest dropping one attack and adding a Storm Bolter for
close defense.

Which stats? (35cm, 2, 4+, -1)?

>
> Scatolo (support)
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 4+
> CAF: +2
> Weapons: Bolters / Barrage Missile
> Range: 25cm/50cm
> Att. D: 3/Template
> To Hit: 5+/4BP
> TSM: 0/-1
> Notes:

I would change the Bolters with an Heavy Bolter (50cm, 2, 5+, 0)...
opinions?

> Scatolo (assault)
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 4+
> CAF: +4
> Weapons: Flamer
> Range: Template
> Att. D: Template
> To Hit: 4+
> TSM: 0
> Notes: Ignores cover

Leave the flamer template for the Battle Sister dread, is more in
character... I propose this Assault Scatolo:

Scatolo (assault)
Move: 10 cm
Save: 4+
CAF: +4
Weapons: Assault Cannon / Heavy Flamer
Range: 35cm/35cm
Att. D: 2/1
To Hit: 4+/4+
TSM: 0/0
Notes: Heavy Flamer Ignores cover

> Punisher
> Move: 10 cm
> Save: 4+
> CAF: +3
> Weapons: Assault cannon
> Range: 50cm
> Att. D: 1
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: -2
> Notes:
>
> -> -2 save for an assault cannon??? Might I humbly suggest 3 attack
dice with 0 TSM

Standardizing Assault Cannons as (35cm, 2, 4+, 0)?
 
> Robots
> ->even if it is a bit redundant, I'd like to see this one here. In
fact, the Imperial Wargear section is IMO a bit confusing addition
and I suggest it is eliminated and the units added to the respective
armylists.

My 2 cents? DROP Robots. Super-Human Space Marines of the 41'
millennium don't need these things... leave them for Battle Sisters,
IG and Squats.

> Land Raider Crusader*
> The Crusader is a redesigned Land Raider originally built for the
Black Templars Space Marines Chapter. Its purpose is to carry their
Terminators safe right up to the enemy's positions and give close
support to the infantry once unloaded. These tanks are still quite
uncommon outside the Black Templars.
> Models: Normal GW Land Raider models (or slightly modified to
represent the bolters in the side sponsons).
>
> Move: 25 cm
> Save: 3+
> CAF: +3
> Weapons: Hurricane Bolters/Assault Cannon/Multi Melta
> Range: 15cm/50cm/25cm
> Att. D: 4/1/1
> To Hit: 6+/5+/3+
> TSM: 0/-1/-2
> Notes: May carry 2 troop stands
>
> ->IIRC this one was discussed pretty thoroughly. However, we could
playtest a bit different stats just for fun:
> Move: 20 cm
> Save: 2+
> CAF: +3
> Weapons: Hurricane Bolters/Assault Cannon/Multi Melta
> Range: 50cm/50cm/25cm
> Att. D: 2/1/1
> To Hit: 5+/5+/3+
> TSM: 0/-1/-2
> Notes: May carry 2 troop stands
>
> -> Rationale: LRC is not supposed to be any faster than normal LR
and its armor is actually a bit stronger, hence the speed and save
respectively. A hurricane bolter is three twin-linked bolters and the
crusader has two of them. This means that each has the effective
firepower of a tactical space marine stand, hence the range and
attack dice. The interesting part is that according to the point
cost formula bot the current Crusader and my own suggestion should
cost exatly the same per detachment as the regular LR.

Change Assault Cannons to more adherent stats (35cm, 2, 4+, 0), and
I'm in with your version =).

> Sabre Tank Hunter
> The Sabre is one of the many Rhino variants available. It does very
little to up-armor the basic Rhino frame, and instead simply replaces
the infantry capacity with a standard vehicular autocannon. Light and
cheap, this unit is sometimes seen in the Space Marine forces.
> Models: Fit a Rhino or Whirlwind models from the GW Space Marine
Tanks sprue with a single-Autocannon turret or simply use a Predator
model without side sponsons.
>
> Move: 25 cm
> Save: 4+
> CAF: 0
> Weapons: Autocannon
> Range: 75cm
> Att. D: 1
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: -1
> Notes: Turret
>
> ->The gun has the stats of a lascannon, so why not call it a
lascannon?

Agree.

 
> Land Speeder
> This comprises the most common type of skimmer vehicle available to
the Space Marine and Imperial Guard armies.
> Models: GW plastic or metal models of the name.
>
> Move: 30 cm
> Save: 6+
> CAF: +3
> Weapons: Multi-Melta
> Range: 25cm
> Att. D: 1
> To Hit: 3+
> TSM: -2
> Notes: Skimmer
>
> -> No change

+++New Unit here+++

Land Speeder 'Tornado'
Carrying a devastating Assault Cannon the Tornados excels in the
anti-personnel role, often acting as a mobil reserve, dashing forward
to exploit weaknesses in the enemy or bolstering the Space Marines'
attack where they most need it.
Models: GW plastic or metal models of the name.

Move: 30 cm
Save: 6+
CAF: +3
Weapons: Assault Cannon
Range: 35cm
Att. D: 2
To Hit: 4+
TSM: 0
Notes: Skimmer

+++New Unit here+++

Land Speeder 'Typhoon'
The Typhoon is a Land Speeder fitted with Typhoon Missile Launchers.
Typhoon Missiles are simply a larger version of the Frag missiles
fired by a normal missile launcher. They are excellent weapons to use
against enemy infantry and light vehicles, but lack the strength to
deal with more heavily armored enemy vehicles and troops.
Models: GW plastic or metal models of the name.

Move: 30 cm
Save: 6+
CAF: +3
Weapons: Typhoon Missiles
Range: 50cm
Att. D: Template
To Hit: 2BP
TSM: 0
Notes: Skimmer, cannot combine barrages, cannot make Indirect fire

> Predator
> Built around the successful Rhino chassis it is armed with several
lascannons and can be seen in Marine and Imperial Guard armies.
> Models: GW metal models of the name.
>
> Move: 25 cm
> Save: 3+
> CAF: 0
> Weapons: Autocannon/Lascannon
> Range: 75cm/75cm
> Att. D: 1/2
> To Hit: 5+/5+
> TSM: -1/-1
> Notes: Autocanon in turret
>
> ->Why does the autocannon have a -1 TSM? It's not as good anti-tank
weapon as a lascannon (also, see the robot stats). Suggest reducing
it to 0.

Why not make it full-Lascannons? And let's call the tank
Predator 'Annihilator', so we can introduce...

+++New Unit here+++

Predator 'Destructor'
A common variant of the Annihilator, the Predator Destructor is armed
with a turret-mounted Autocannon and 2 sponson Heavy Bolters.
Models: GW metal models of the name.

Move: 25 cm
Save: 3+
CAF: 0
Weapons: Autocannon/Sponson Heavy Bolters
Range: 75cm/50cm
Att. D: 1/3
To Hit: 5+/5+
TSM: 0/0
Notes: Autocanon in turret

> Vindicator
> Built in to the Rhino chassis is an enormous gun that fires a large
shell capable of destroying its target and intervening cover. Shots
from a Vindicator ignore cover modifiers. This vehicle sees service
in Marine and Imperial Guard armies.
> Models: GW metal models of the name.
>
> Move: 20 cm
> Save: 2+
> CAF: +2
> Weapons: Thunderer
> Range: 50cm
> Att. D: 1
> To Hit: 4+
> TSM: -3
> Notes:Ignores to hit modifiers for cover
>
> -> Why does Vindicator have a CAF of +2? 0 would be more
appropriate since it lacks close defense weapons and a turret.

Agree.

> Mole Mortar
> This is a light artillery piece that instead of firing the shell in
to the air it send it through the ground to its target; exploding
underneath them. Due to its method of travel this weapon ignores
shields of any type. In addition if the target is a Titan or
Praetorian if hit, roll a further D6 to determine if the target is
trapped within the crater that is formed by the explosion. On a roll
of 6 the Titan/Praetorian is trapped within the crater. Trapped
targets may shoot normally but, if they wish to exit the crater, must
do so on Charge Orders. Command and Praetorians must forego firing
attacks if they wish to leave the crater. Space Marine, Imperial
Guard and Squat armies use this weapon.
> Models: Use GW plastic Mole Mortar model (old Squat sprue) or a
substitute (a large caliber 1/300 or slightly larger mortar piece
fitted in reverse) with two Tactical Marines as crew on a stand.
>
> Move: 5 cm
> Save: -
> CAF: -3
> Weapons: Mole Mortar
> Range: 150cm
> Att. D: Template
> To Hit: 1BP
> TSM: 0
> Notes:Fires Barrage, special rules

Since the shot travels underground, I think it's reasonable that this
weapon ignores cover...

> Stormwind
> The Stormwind is a standard Whirlwind fitted with AA missiles
instead of the usual barrage missiles.
> Miniature: Use the new GW Whirlwind model.
>
> Move: 20 cm
> Save: 4+
> CAF: 0
> Weapons: SAM-launcher
> Range: 75cm
> Att. D: 2
> To Hit: 5+
> TSM: -1
> Notes:AA unit
>
> -> This is the new unit.

Finally! =)

> Thunderbolt fighter
> These are the air superiority fighters of the Imperium. As with all
flyers Thunderbolts do not combine their barrages; firing them
independently. They follow the flyers' rules and are considered
thrusters.
> Models: GW metal models of the name.
>
> Move: 100 cm
> Save: 4+
> CAF: +4
> Weapons: Autocannon/Rockets
> Range: 25cm/25cm
> Att. D: 3/template
> To Hit: 5+/4BP
> TSM: -1/-1
> Notes: Thruster, does not combine barrages
>
> -> This has as good CAF as the Eldar nightwing. Since the Nightwing
is supposed to be superior the CAF should be lowered.

Yep, make them CAF +3, but slightly more cheap...

> -> Is there any interest to incorporate the new Lightning fighter
and Marauder Destroyer as optional units?

Yes! Yes! Let's make some stats! =)

>
> ->That's it! Next part: Special Chapters.
>
> Jyrki Saari
>
> -There is no such thing as free lunch because eating takes time and
time is money.
Received on Thu May 16 2002 - 18:16:08 UTC