Re: [NetEpic ML] Slann proxies and modifying the army lists

From: cibernyam <cibernyam_at_...>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 01:23:45 +0100

Find my comments below.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Gary
  To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] Slann proxies and modifying the army lists


  I have some questions.


  <cibernyam_at_...> wrote:
>
> As long as balance and general concept of the army are kept I have no
> problem in having those lists expanded. Maybe an expansion based on the
> addition of Slann codex armies may be a good approach to avoid loosing the
> previous work flavour.
  I hope you aren't refering to the EA Necrons? Slann Necrons apeal to me but the EA list turns me off completely. Although a little tweaking might be ok I don't want to change the flavor a bit.

  --> No, I'm referring to codex armies as they are used in NetEpic, that is, as opposed to standard army list. That would be the Slann army of world X that has this A,B,C special bilities and F,G,H drawbacks. I don't have the rules here at this moment but there's plenty of examples in most army lists (Space Wolves, Alaitoc Craftworld, Commercial World Squats,...). It's a good way to introduce new units without affecting seriously the balance of the new army.



> About the skimmers, my concern is focused on the point increase. Giving
> skimmer to a Rhino does not improve too much its eficiency; the same happens
> to slow moving units;on the other hand, giving skimmer ability to a fast SH
> tank or a well armed and armored unit, should boost up the ability cost. We
> may end up with a too expensive army to field, even for slann. Maybe we can
> balance that with low profile weapons/weak armor/slow movement/lower CAF for
> new skimmer units.
>
> Albert
>
  What is the big value of "skimmer"?

  Is it the pop up attacks?

  or the moving over difficult terrrain?

  Are you concerned about the Super Heavy tank?

  I hadn't thought about it being a skimmer.

  I have no problem using skimmers models without the abilitys but I think "skimmers" fit the Necrons and they are readily available now. Even if you think the cost should be pushed up a bit. Another 50 points perhaps?

  --> Skimmers move over any terrain, can do pop-up attacks, can fly off CC and are only pinnable by other skimmers of the same pinning class or higher . Many years ago there was a point cost formula and a lot of arguments about that. How many points is worth giving a Rhino skimmer ability? 50 for a group of 3? With such low CAF and poor weapon it does not make a difference. But if you give it to a LandRaider maybve you should increase 100 points for the 3 of them, since popup becomes more powerful with those lascannons, not to say the ability to evade CC for such an armoured unit (that is, easier to fight in CC). Just take a look to an eldar Tempest. Awesome unit, though with low CAF, still this is not a problem because is unpinnable by anyone and able to bring doom with its weapons and pop-ups. Of course, the cost is high and probably 50-75 points of each Tempest are due to the skimmer ability.

  If you want a concrete example with Slann/Necrons, I think that a Necron Nemesis support card swith skimmer ability should have their point cost increased at least by 100 or 150, from 300 to 400 or 450. Notice how some abilities generate strong sinergies that make their point cost quite relative: Self-Repair does not work in Close Combat and Skimmer is really good to avoid close combat. If you also add the fixed save and the pop-up, thus only being able to be shot during First Fire avoiding 50% or more of all hits...phew, that's a tough one! you have to balance those sinergies with the point cost.

  Skimmer is an expensive ability for good units, which in turn are already expensive, thus making them more expensive and in the end resulting in a too tiny army, which is no fun to play against (IMHO, if I like to play with fewer models then I play battletech). Maybe a solution is trying to avoid making too many over-the-top units by balancing them with lower stats or drawbacks. Thart was the whole point.

  New units? It would be nice but I really don't want to rewrite the list. I am trying to get the book ready. I am just looking at fiting the new models into it. I can't believe an advanced race would make themselves dependent on wheels or tracks. Each vehicle is a being.

  One more day before I wrap it up for the holidays. I am at the point of puting the pieces of the book together. Photos and other artwork can be inserted later.

  Power won't stay on for more than an hour so computer time is rare. That is why this message is so rushed.

  Gary

   
Received on Thu Dec 21 2006 - 00:23:45 UTC