Re: Warmonger Summary (long!)

From: Eivind Borgeteien <eivind.borgeteien_at_...>
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:04:43 -0000

Hi!

Very interesting thoughts!

My comments below:

--- In netepic_at_egroups.com, "Daniel Wolf" <MasterDanielWolf_at_g...>
wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> I've done this little summary, so we can see what we have until
now...
>
> Some mentioned that the warmonger should be a long range support
imperator
> titan, because GW intended it to be this way in Epic 40k.
>
> I say: Have we to do it this way? Must we do what GW wants / or
intends to
> do?
> I say a big *NOPE*. ;-))
>
> Let's try and make the warmonger a lighter support titan (compared
to the
> imperator titan).
>
>
> ------------------------------------------
> THE TO HIT TEMPLATE and THE EMPEROR TITAN PLASMA ALLOCATION CHART:
>
> Let's talk about this one later; let me just say that i would use
nearly the
> same as for the imperator titan and change the boxes for the main
weapon
> system (e.g. give the missile launcher six boxes and the vengeance
cannon
> just two boxes).
>
>
> PLASMA ALLOCATION / GENERATION:
>
> Bear in mind that the warmonger just generates d6+2 plasma. I would
strongly
> recommend on staying at this value! After all it should be a less
powerful
> titan as the imperator.
> Talk about the needed plasma for weapons and systems later.
>
>
> THE WEAPONS:
>
> 4 Gun Towers (Flak Batterys):
>
> 1st Suggestion:
> > The weapons: the turret weapons have been replaced by AA-type
> > quadruple-barreled weapons. Comparing the Epic40k Imperator and
> > Warmonger, we see that the new weapons have a slightly inferior
punch
> > than the old AA. They should probably produce a larger amount of
> > fire, though. Range stays the same (but see below).
>
>
> 2nd Suggestion:
> > Flak Battery auto-cannons fire control powered to shot on
first
> fire
> > range attacks to hit TSM SP
> > 70cm 16 4+ -1 can not shoot at
ground targets
>
>
> Conclusion:
> The 2nd one comes quite close to what i wanted to suggest, which
would be a
> Cerberus Anti-Aircraft gun.
>
> 4x Cerberus Anti-Aircraft Gun:
> range attacks to hit TSM SP
> 100cm 2x4=10 5+ -1 AA gun only; can shoot only
on flyers
> / floaters, titans,
> buildings;

----->This is good. Let the AA system be a little flexible. Your
oponent doesn't always field flyers. Its too bad that it should
render a weaponsystem useless!
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Vengeance Cannon (Main Weapon System 1):
>
> 1st Suggestion:
> > First weapon: BIG double barreled energy weapon. The Epic40K stats
> > are practically identical to an Epic40k Volcano Cannon, so I'd say
> > let's translate it into the equivalent of two Volcanos, with
> > overcharge possibility which increases range, to hit and save
> > modifier (ouch!).
> >
> > Green counter: As twin Volcano cannon. No bonus.
> > Red counter: Range increased to 150cm.
> > Red and green counter: As red, -1 save mod increase.
> > Two red counters: As above, additional +1 to damage rolls.
> > If this is still too powerful, require that both barrels be
energized
> > separately.
>
>
> 2nd Suggestion:
> > Vengeance Cannon needs 1 plasma to shoot
> > range attacks to hit TSM SP
> > 120cm 2 4+ -4 +2 damage lists
4
> attacks on overcharge
>
> Conclusion:
> I first thought about making the vengeance cannon into a double
barrled
> quake cannon, but then i read that it should be energy weapon. So i
thought
> about a double barreld volcano cannon.
> It seems that more people had this idea!
> As all two suggestions are nearly the same, i see that we agree
that the
> vengeance cannon should be some kind of double barreld volcano
cannon (let'S
> fight over the special rules later ;-); let us first do a rough
layout).

----->Twin barreled Volcano sounds fine!
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Doomstrike Launcher (Main weapon System 2):
>
> 1st Suggestion:
> > The eight missiles are a problem. A BIG problem. Having a
> > configurable Imperator entices the need for a "Hull cost +
missiles
> > cost". This leads to:
> >
> > A) An ungodly final cost which renders the thing unusable except
in
> > 8000 pts+ battles.
> > B) Cheese. "I'll take 8 Vortexes, thank you very much".
> > Also the rule about firing only one per turn doesn't make much
sense,
> > considering that many Epic games last 3-4 rounds. It helps
somewhat
> > countering the cheese-masters, but it also can be abused ("three
> > vortexes and I'll leave five mount points empty so I pay less.. no
> > sense paying for missiles I won't use").
> > My proposal: let's produce 3-4 acceptable fixed configurations,
rate
> > of fire two missiles per turn. This will allow full use of the
weapon
> > in a normal game, and will save the headaches about trying to
balance
> > a configurable super-long-range Imperator.
>
>
> 2nd Suggestion:
> Restrict to barrage missiles;
>
>
> 3rd Suggestion:
> The Doomstrike luncher needs 1 plasma to shoot
> range attacks to hit
TSM
> SP
> table 2 missiles/4 blasts each 3+ under temp -
2 can
> shoot 3 missiles on
> overcharge
> can change missiles to others, Adds stated points per and losing
stock
> missile
>
>
> Conclusion:
> Mixing these suggestions together i would come up with the
following:
> Assume that every missile has the same points value; allow the use
of a
> maximum of 3 or 4 special missiles (warp, vortex, harpoon) and the
rest is
> fixed as barrage missiles.
>
> Let him fire a maximum of, say, 2 or 3 missiles per turn and make
the
> missile launcher need really MUCH plasma if one wants to fire more
missiles.

---->You have to be able to fire 3 missiles each turn. The two first
should be cheap, the third cost some more. Should you wish to fire
even more it should really cost your shirt and boots!
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Secondary weapons:
>
> 1st Suggestion:
> > Secondary weapons stay the same.
>
> 2nd Suggestion:
> >Secondary weapons fire control powered to shot
> >range attacks to hit TSM SP
> >50cm 12 5+ -1 none
>
>
> Conclusion:
> Hmm seems we agree on this point again. ;-) Let me just remark that
the
> secondary weapons have just 8 attack dice!
> Let's also give him the bolters of the imperator titan:
> range attacks to hit TSM SP
> 15cm 16 6+ 0 none

----> Agree to this. It should have some bolters.
> ------------------------------------------
>
> The head weapon:
>
> 1st Suggestion:
> > The head mounts two rather big cannons. I'd give the weapon a
50cm or 75cm
> > range (remember, this is going to be 80 in practice...), 2 dice,
hit
> > on 4+, save -2, fire directly ahead.
>
> 2nd Suggestion:
> > Head guns fire control powered to shot on first
fire
> > range attacks to hit TSM SP
> > 70cm 2 3+ -2 none
>
> Conclusion:
> Naa?!? See something ? On most things we agree. ;-) I would have
done the
> same for the head cannons. Let's say it has the profile of
suggestion 2. OK?

----> Agree on suggestion 2, but I'd say 75 cm range 90 degrees front
fire arch.
> ------------------------------------------
>
> The **'':''##: don'T know what to do Sensorium and the flyer:
>
> 1st Suggestion:
> > The big turret laser has been replaced by a special sensor system
> > which increases range of all weapons (except secondary ones) by
30cm.
> > While this is directly translated into NetEpic terms, it also
means
> > that facing the monstrosity is going to put anyone in a world of
> > hurt, since the thing outranges practically everything. Also,
> > increased-range AA shots mean "forget about flyers".
> >
> > The Warmonger carries a small recon flyer (sort of the Colossus).
In
> > Epic40k rules, this allows it to fire indirect artillery as direct
> > ONCE PER BATTLE. I don't think this makes any sense, and I'd
convert
> > it to "as long as the thing flies". I'd also give the vehicle a
small
> > token weapon (standard bolter, 15cm, 1 dice, hit on 6): this
doesn't
> > alter the balance in any meaningful way but properly reflects the
> > fact that you don't fly unarmed recon vehicles in heavy combat
> > situations.
>
>
> 2nd Suggestion:
> > Same as above, EXCEPT: Change it to "missile guidance center" and
> > reduce the amount of missiles fired per turn if it is destroyed.
>
>
> 3rd Suggestion:
> > Sensorium adds 30cm to the range of all non seondary weapons when
powered
> and
> > undamaged
> >
> > Spotter plane gives line of sight of table for Doomstrike
> > move save CAF weapons range
> A.D. to hit TSM
> > 35cm 5+ +1 bolters
15cm
> 2 5+ 0
>
>
> Conclusion:
> Hmm this one is really difficult: Let's combine all suggestions and
say it
> increases the range of all weapons by 30cm, make it EASILY (!!)
destroyable
> (very worse armor save) and say that one can only fire 1 missile
per turn it
> it's destroyed.
> For the plane i like the stats of the 3rd suggestions.


----> As long as the sensorium is intact the titan can fire warp and
vortexmissiles without scatter. If its destroyed it follows normal
rules, even if the flyer has LOS. 1/2 amount of missiles fired if it
is destroyed.

Stats of the flyer is ok if it is a thruster, if it is a skimmer I
would give it a save of 4+
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> So far you saw my wild blabla to the warmonger. Hopefully we can
come up
> with something cool.
>
> Bye
> Dan Wolf
Received on Mon Nov 06 2000 - 22:04:43 UTC