Re: [NetEpic ML] War Monger play test
Well to make it weaker start by making weaker weapons not stronger like you are doing. Hehehe :-) you give it weapons as strong if not srtonger then the Imp Titan drop a few light weapons, hence the lower number of bolters, then increase the ranges by 30cm with some silly plane trick like the Squats, and you want it cheaper. Well lets just keep in mind the plane to be like a special character so should increase price by say 150-200pts, I'd say 200pts for the faster move and better weapons than normal specials. Increase weapons by 30cm, again a special abillity, so increase point cost again 150pts. More weapons with bigger punch, again special ability, yet another point increase say 10pts for each weapon that is stronger than a regular Titan weapon, this is fair. Now add all this up,
Imp Titan cost 2250
plane cost 200
increased range cost 150
each stronger weapon cost * 60 * not sure would have to look up each just a guess
TOTAL COST 2660 (do like GW and round down this thing comes in at)
2650pts
OOpppss forgot the 2 detachments of Death Strike Missiles in this things left pocket yet more points to be added. Lets not forget we made these units special so this would just not be right to allow it. But, for general porpuse we'll just say 250pts x 2 = 500pts and I'll throw the two left over ones in for free how's that, instead of charging the 83.3 points they cost each. NEW TOTAL 3150pts, now work from here to bring the cost down, is the only way it can be done, start by weakening weapons, or make so some weapons can only fire once per every other turn, fewer sheilds. These are just some ideas, how bout some more
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Wolf
To: NETEPIC____
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] War Monger play test
Hi all!
My comments on your comments qester. ;-)
Inevitable that i state my comments on this warmonger version! And believe on the warmonger creation i'll put my hands on, oh yes! I'm a full hearted imperial player and a big criticism which tries to keep things "on the ground" and make them not to powerful. ;-)
I m a ork and bug player at heart
I hate bugs; they are veeeery hard (bio-titans extremely difficult to kill!).
But enough talking.. talk about this version:
> >1 plasma to move 2 to run; 1 for fire control 2 for first fire,
> >one for sensorium, one for shields
let me say here: 1 counter for shield regeneration on a 5+, 2 counters for regeneration on 4+;
I let that one by sorry
>> one for doomstrike, one for vengeance, standard plasma useage is 6 points over power >> from there
> > The Doomstrike launcher needs 1 plasma to shoot
> >
> > range attacks to hit TSM SP
> > table 2 missiles/4 blasts each 3+ under temp - can shoot 3 missiles on overcharge
> >
> > can change missiles to others, Adds stated points per and losing
> stock missile
I don'T understand quite enough, what is meaned with "attacks: 2 missiles/4 blasts each", maybe somebody can explain?
its a barrage missile with 4 blast markers and you add the special missile at there full points cost
Does this mean the launcher is fitted with 2 missiles á 4 barrage templates, and up to 6 special missiles can be added?
My suggestion would be: we use 5 barrage missiles (or some similar missiles) and 3 special missile (vortex,warp,harpoon).
Plasma usage is ok!
> > Vengeance Cannon needs 1 plasma to shoot
> >
> > range attacks to hit TSM SP
> >
> > 120cm 2 4+ -4 +2 damage
> > overcharge 4 3+ -4 +2 damage lists
> > 2 red 6 3+ -6 +3 damage
> > when shooting 2 red weapons burn out on roll of any ones, one turn to repair for each one
quite ok, but i think i double-barreld volcano cannon would be better (as more people mentioned);
If you take a look at the plasma annihilator of the imperator titan, you see that the vengeance cannon would be a little bit better than the annihilator (except for the point that only 2 plasma counters can be placed in it)
maybe with this profile (a maximum of 2 plasma counters of any type my be placed in the vengeance cannon; counters may be mixed and fired with different profiles as the imperator titan):
range attacks to hit TSM SP
1 green counter:
100cm 2 4+ -4
2 seperate green counters:
100cm 4 4+ -4 ok 2 green and 1 red is the same amount of power 2green = 1 red
1 red plasma counter (overcharge):
120cm 3 3+ -4 +3 on damage tables +3 is a bit over the top you think
2 red plasma counters:
120cm 6 3+ -5 +3 on damage tables
when shooting 2 red weapons burn out on roll of any ones, one turn to repair for each one
First i started with a volcano cannon with 2 attack dice, but then i saw that this does not work. It was hard to make the volcano cannons _better_. So i decided to stay close to your original suggestion, qester. ;-) I also used your burn out roll (nice invention)!
no need for range change its at 150cm with a working senserium the power is used to shoot faster not farther
and i figered its overheating from full auto fire not power usage
On this weapon is interesting, that, compared to the imperator titan, it gives a modifier on damage tables!
After sleeping one night over my "famous" (*G*) creation, i've come to the conclusion that it's not good. It's basically nothing else than a small plasma annihilator although it doesn't look like one (optically).
Therefore i thought a little bit more and come up with the following:
range attacks to hit TSM SP
100cm 1 3+ -4 +3 on damage tables
The vengeance cannon is basically a volcano cannon with two barrels. Each barrel needs one green plasma counter to be fired with the above profile.
Each barrel can be seperately overcharged (putting a red plasma counter in it), which gives the following profile:
range attacks to hit TSM SP
100cm 2 3+ -4 +3 on damage tables
When both barrels have been overcharged then a burn out can happen on a roll of "1 or 2" on the to hit dice. A repair can be made as per standard rules (!: If burn out happens both barrels have to be repaired!).
I think this ruling comes a bit closer to what it should be (my opinion; the above rules are just a suggestion, which can be altered).
> > Flak Battery auto-cannons fire control powered to shot on
> first fire
> >
> > range attacks to hit TSM SP
> >
> > 70cm 16 4+ -1 can shoot at any targets
After reading some of the postings and flipping the epic magazine again, i'll agree on this profile. I would only increase the range to 75cm, then they have the same range as the gun towers of the imperator titan (after all the flak batteries should be a replacement of them).
it at 100cm with a working senserium and its a snip fire weapon FF if it can shoot at all
Hehe, funny we start arguing over 5cm range!
I wouldn'T let them fire on first fire if the fire control is powerd; it should be overcharged (red counter)!
> > Head guns fire control powered to shot on first fire sorry typo <-- sorry, i don'T understand?!
> range attacks to hit TSM SP
> >
> > 70cm 2 3+ -2 none
Again i have a "counter" suggestion (I know i'm nasty; am i? ;-)
range attacks to hit TSM SP
75cm 2 4+ -2 thats 105cm with a working senserium (yes i know;)
can only fire on first fire, if fire control overcharged!
I modelled this weapon after the Gun towers of the imperator titan.
there a bigger gun then that
No, not by all means; when you take a look at the Epic 40k profiles you see that the gun towers of the imperator titan have a RoF=1, FP=3 and Str=6, whereas the Gun head as a RoF=2, FP=6 and Str=4.
You see that the gunhead is a bit better vs. normal epic models (infantry or tanks) but not so effective vs. titans. Therefore i would stick at my advice and maybe add 1 attack dice.
> > Secondary weapons fire control powered to shot
> >
> > range attacks to hit TSM SP
> >
> > 50cm 12 5+ -1 none
Hehehe; Kill me, but i would skip these! No secondary weapons, because when you take a look at the epic magazine and compare the imperator and the warmonger titan, you see that the bastions are called "secondary weapons", but in the bastions are mainly troops, which fire bolters right?
there are 15 guns on the mini that are secondary guns only 2 of them in the bastions
Mhh were are the rest of the guns? I only see 6 of them: 2 in the bastions (lower legs), and 4 on each edge of the top plate where the flak guns are mounted.
>> 12 stands of troops in leg bastons only due to there is no room in the head, any more towers are gone
>> and more weapons and ammo
Ah i understand. These fire the bolters, right? sorry but no, there are only 4 stands in the bastions that can shoot and they shoot their own weapons there is no need for bolters
But why has the Imperator titan infantry stands in it? These fire the bolters and if you kill them the imperator has less bolter attack dice?
Therefore the following profile:
range attacks to hit TSM SP
15cm 12 6+ 0 none
Or let us say that 8 troops are firing bolters and 4 are firing secondary weapons?!?
> > standered Titan defence system fire control powered to work
Sorry, but i don'T know what a standard titan defence system should be?
all attacking troops need to roll a 5+ to live to attack a titan in CC its in the titan rules take a look and is why you don t need bolters ok
Ah yes, this titan defence system i know ;-); But the rules state that the imperator titan has special rules regarding CC; models able to enter buildings fight a boarding action (all bolters are fired before this), and all other models fight a cc following the normal rules.
> > Sensorium adds 30cm to the range of all non seondary weapons
> when powered and undamaged
ok.
> > Spotter plane gives line of sight of table for Doomstrike
> >
> > move save CAF weapons range A.D. to hit TSM
> > 35cm 5+ +1 bolters 15cm 2 5+ 0
OK.
> > looks right at 2250 points please play test this
Finally i just would like to say, that it seems we are getting closer now to a warmonger profile (hopefully). With the listed profile, we created a imperator titan which is quite good on his own, but is a bit "weaker" as his big brother (just my opinion).
For the points cost i can't say anything, but i would estimate that i should be cheaper than the imperator titan.
Points value? Maybe 1800 or 1900 or 2000??? I don' know.....
will see after some play testing ok even with my rules i saw it at 2000 but most people wanted 2250 so thats what it is
You'll have to keep in mind that i want to create a warmonger that is not so good as the imperator titan, and should thus therefor cheaper. So i try some "tinkering" on the rules. The final conclusion can only be brought by extensive playtesting.
Bye
Dan Wolf
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Received on Wed Nov 08 2000 - 21:33:44 UTC
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