Hi!
Rules for targetting command units apply as with any other units. It may
only do so if it is the closest, etc. Of course a flier has the extra
flexibility ot fly in to make such units the closest, but this usually
exposes it to more fire and from different more vulnerable flanks. Its a
give and take as usual.
Peter
quester wrote:
>
> yes good piont Q....and most of the time the flyer can t attack a
> command unit any way right???
>
> Peter Ramos <primarch_at_...> wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> Hellreich has made an excellent point!! I would permit ANY psychic
> power to affect fliers ONLY if they were attacked by the fliers.
>
> Nice slam dunk by Hellreich.
>
> What say others?
>
> Peter
>
>
> Hellreich wrote:
>
>> Ok Ok OK OK, lets end this debate right now
>> 1: was the plane attacking the warlock?
>> If the planes were not attacking the Warlock then he would not have been
>> able to draw fire on them with any of his weapons or mind powers for!!!
>> 1: he is an infantry troop
>> 2: Infantry may and I repeat may only fire upon planes that are attacking
>> them.!! And you'll find this in the old rules. !!!
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave " <warprat_at_...> <mailto:warprat_at_...>
>> To: <netepic_at_egroups.com> <mailto:netepic_at_egroups.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 6:20 PM
>> Subject: [NetEpic ML] [Net Epic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi Peter!
>>>
>>> I am seeking the wording in both game systems, NetEpic and Games
>>> Workshop. The wording was not changed in Titan Legions (I Think,
>>> check me, I might be wrong,) and was released in the Original Space
>>> Marine set. So they had plenty of time to alter the rules, if they
>>> wanted to. They did alter the cost of Striking Scorpians, and some
>>> other things, when the 2nd set of cards came out. Warlocks cards
>>> have not been altered one bit since the 1st set of cards came out.
>>>
>>> My feeling is that everyone has thier own way of handling this based
>>> on tradition and hearsay. NetEpic, and your flyer rules have favored
>>> aircraft, and made them more like thier modern day counterparts.
>>> Hence, the off board flyer morement of NetEpic yore. Flyers, in your
>>> wiew, are very hard to hit.
>>>
>>> Psycic powers upset your Flyer Rules. If you can hold that sceaming
>>> aircraft on the table, instead of letting it move!
>>>
>>> away, you can
>>> easily target it. This would be devestating to your notion of how a
>>> Flyer Rules system should be. If I liked to have hard to hit, fast
>>> flyers, and really believed that was the best way to go, I would
>>> probably interpret the Psychic Rules as you do now.
>>>
>>> But I don't... I see aircraft more in the Games Workshop way, with
>>> high and low elevation, and much, much easier to shoot down
>>> aircraft. The Psychic Powers under the old Games Workshop rules, if
>>> you used them as I do, were not that great a danger against aircraft.
>>> Aircraft were easily targeted by a great number of more mundane
>>> weapons. So you hold the T-Hawk, and make it motionless. Dosn't
>>> really matter too much, you could target the T-Hawk with your guns,
>>> without penalty, (or a small penalty), anyway!
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm off the mark on this, I certainly don't want to put words
>>> in your mouth, but this is my perception.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the info on the imobilized unit !
>>>
>>> CAF, that's good stuff to
>>> know. As is ALL you info, even if I have a different point of view!
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Peter!
>>>
>>> Warprat ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In netepic_at_egroups.com <mailto:netepic_at_egroups.com>, "Peter Ramos" <primarch_at_b...> <mailto:primarch_at_b...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> The wording is okay IF you remember the power was there before
>>>
>>> flyers were
>>>
>>>> introduced to the game. You will find it hard to find hard and fast
>>>> interpretations from GW because we all know their bad habit of
>>>
>>> introducing
>>>
>>>> rules to the game without thought of the effects on already
>>>
>>> existent rules
>>>
>>>> and units.
>>>>
>>>> That's why !
>>>>
>>>> in net epic we have made those things clearer, since GW
>>>
>>> never
>>>
>>>> did. Anytime you find this problem, that's the usual reason, old
>>>
>>> rules
>>>
>>>> weren't taken into account for new rules and units.
>>>>
>>>> As for immobilized units the rule is one only: "immobilized units
>>>
>>> lose their
>>>
>>>> CAF bonus, they only roll the basic 2d6". That's for all units in
>>>
>>> the game.
>>>
>>>> By the way Dave are you seeking the wording in the original game
>>>
>>> rules or in
>>>
>>>> net epic. If its an omission let me know, I'm not clear on what
>>>
>>> source you
>>>
>>>> are refe!
>>>>
>>>> rring to.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding flier, one of the reasons that flyers are now sort of an
>>>
>>> optional
>>>
>>>> thing overall speaks to what you point out regarding disagreements
>>>
>>> between
>>>
>>>> players. That's why we left something very bare bones as core and
>>>
>>> let people
>>>
>>>> sort out their house rules.
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Dave [mailto:warprat_at_j...]
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 5:05 PM
>>>> To: netepic_at_egroups.com <mailto:netepic_at_egroups.com>
>>>> Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Questor!
>>>>
>>>> Well, I guess we just won't be able to agree on this. And that's
>>>
>>> OK.br>
>>>
>>>> I WOULD like to see that Q and A from GW, so I know where GW is
>>>> comming from on this.
>>>>
>>>> If you are right, the wording on the power is extreamly poor.
>>>
>>> Saying
>>>
>>>> nothing about Flyers being excluded, and nothing in the pschic
>>>
>>> rules,
>>>
>>>> (at least that I could find). Please find a rule, if you can, I
>>>
>>> hate
>>>
>>>> these kind of discrepancies.
>>>>
>>>> As far as targeting a piece of ground, I see no support for that
>>>
>>> idea.
>>>
>>>> Nothing against it, but nothing for it either.
>>>>
>>>> It isn't an auto kill, because beyond immobilizing the target, it
>>>> does nothing else. It could make the flyer more easy to target,
>>>> however. With the!
>>>>
>>>> original GW Flyer rules, targeting flyers was
>>>
>>> much
>>>
>>>> easier. So the Warlock power Psychic Lock was not very devestating
>>>> to flyers, compared to NetEpic. NetEpic has made flyers much harder
>>>> to kill. I know that my group and others are using House Rules for
>>>> flyers, because it's a big point of disagreement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Warprat ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In netepic_at_egroups.com <mailto:netepic_at_egroups.com>, quester <quester666_at_y...> <mailto:quester666_at_y...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ok think about it this way the lock is not put in place at the
>>>>
>>>> speed of thought it takes time to manafest so to say
>>>>
>>>>> and it is a blast effect weapon attack and as per game rules they
>>>>
>>>> !
>>>>
>>>> can t target flyers This is the big reason you can use it on flyers
>>>> and if you use it on a flyer it would be a auto kill with no dice
>>>> rolling making it way to powerful Its not writen to be a killing
>>>> power
>>>>
>>>>> The warlock is not targeting a unit but a spot of ground with a
>>>>
>>>> time lock effect that blasts out from that point stoping time in
>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>> blast
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave <warprat_at_j...> <mailto:warprat_at_j...> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Hellreich!
>>>>>
>>>>> How fast does a unit have to go, to not be targeted? Mind powers
>>>>> operate at the speed of thought. True, some take form in energy
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> matter, but even those can be Snap fired. Non-physical powers
>>>>> /pre>
>>>>
>>>> should
>>>>
>>>>> be even faster, because there is no travel time in physical space.
>>>>> The unit thinks it, and it happens. And in the case of Pschic
>>>>
>>>> Lock,
>>>>
>>>>> it keeps on happening, as long as the Warlock concentrates, or the
>>>>> model breaks free. Since the Warlock can hold a Titan, it's
>>>>
>>>> basicly
>>>>
>>>>> a matter of concentration on the Warlocks part.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, think about this. A plane is in the air and probably
>>>>
>>> visable
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> the entire turn. A bike can be behind cover, only visible for the
>>>>> last 2cm. Yet, only the bike could be targeted? Reaction wise,
>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> plane !
>>>>>
>>>>> should be an easier target.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the Warlock ONLY using his power once per turn, like a spell
>>>>
>>>> being
>>>>
>>>>> cast after a lenghthy incantation? Or is the Warlock like most
>>>>
>>>> other
>>>>
>>>>> units, firing and targeting through the whole turn? In game
>>>>
>>> terms,
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> we give each unit a roll of the die, a chance to affect one thing.
>>>>> But in real life, targeting and fire is more of a constant stream,
>>>>> than ONE big burst. The Psycic lock can last entire turns.
>>>>>
>>>>> I view the Warlock power Psychic Lock, similar to the Babylon 5
>>>>> psycic power, used to hold Shadow ships. They had to be able to
>>>>
>>>> see
>>>>
>>>>> the enemy ships with thier own eyes, yet the!
>>>>>
>>>>> enemy moved very,
>>>>
>>>> very,
>>>>
>>>>> fast.
>>>>>
>>>>> Warprat ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In netepic_at_egroups.com <mailto:netepic_at_egroups.com>, "Hellreich" <hellreich_at_n...> <mailto:hellreich_at_n...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> sure bikes and titans are slower then planes. Think about it, a
>>>>>
>>>>> bike top
>>>>>
>>>>>> speed 200mph, Ever ride one that fast? Just trying to hold on is
>>>>>
>>>>> hard enough
>>>>>
>>>>>> at 167mph, I know I'm nuts and onw one hehehehe :-) GSXR750.
>>>>>
>>>> Plane
>>>>
>>>>> single
>>>>>
>>>>>> prop, this thing has to reach 100mph just to take off. A jet!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> mach1 -
>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>>> faster than sound. Pretty hard to target something that fast. If
>>>>>
>>>>> the plane
>>>>>
>>>>>> just stopped it would crash to the ground. The warlock has to
>>>>>
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>>> time
>>>>>
>>>>>> enough to effect the model the plane would have been there and
>>>>>
>>>> gone.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Dave " <warprat_at_j...> <mailto:warprat_at_j...>
>>>>>> To: <netepic_at_egroups.com> <mailto:netepic_at_egroups.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 6:40 PM
>>>>>> S!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ubject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Peter, Quester, and all!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm going to put a set of Flyer House Rules together for my
>>>>>>
>>>>> playing
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> group. It will be mostly based on the "Old GW Rules", with
>>>>>>
>>> some
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> additions from Peters and Nils Flyer Rules.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used some Warlocks on some T-Hawks last game. Looks like I
>>>>>>
>>>>> made a
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mistake, but you couldn't tell just by reading the rules. The
>>>>>>
>>>>> rules
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> say ANY model, and Psychic powers are capable of being Snap
>>>>>>
>>>> Fired.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I sure would like to see that Games Workshop Q and A's,
>>>>>>
>>> because
>>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> viewed the Warlock Power as something that was more
>>>>>>
>>> sustainable,
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> being as how it could last from turn to turn. The power can
>>>>>>
>>>> hold
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Titans, so it's also strong. Many bikes are almost as fast
>>>>>>
>>> as a
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> flyer, faster if you use a Chaos Card. But yet, bikes can be
>>>>>>
>>>>> held,
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and flyers can't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmmmm, this still doesn't make sense to me. Warlocks and
>>>>>>
>>> other
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Psychers are usually a Special Card, so it doesn't seem a play
>>>>>>> ballance issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why this rule, anyone have any opinions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Warprat ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send e-mail to: netepic-unsubscribe_at_egroups.com <mailto:netepic-unsubscribe_at_egroups.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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Received on Sun Dec 17 2000 - 18:57:20 UTC