Hi!
You can attempt really long jumps now, but the rate of model loss is
higher too. It adds that bit of uncertainty since the enemy can not
predict how far you can go.
The "leaders" warp jump ability apples to the detachment it "leads",
read as is in coherency with. I have always disliked initiative bonuses,
besides the magus's and others job is to navigate the warp, not predict
the future.
The librarian has not been changed. He could never nullify attacks, he
can only "purge psyker", which means engage the psyker itself. Only the
slann can dispel powers.
I'll be editing the rules, before I give them to Daniel for final editing.
Peter
Karlsen Rune wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Thanx for the positive feedback :) I was a little worried for a while. Guess
> the changes wont
> affect the tactics, and the warp changes might even open up for new "cheesy"
> moves.
> I can just hear the complaints now :)
> Has the librerian been changed btw? Not that im an IG expert, but i seem to
> remember Nils
> telling me he could use it to stop any and all psycher attacks...hmm..maybe
> my memory
> is failing me in my "old" age ;)
> The +2 bonus the Mage would apply to accompaning warp jump units, would that
> apply to
> a detachment only? I'll really miss the +1 initiative bonus :(
>
> I agree, it would be sweet to kick ass with the new units. We're trying to
> have a joint
> 10k point battle between chaos/chaos renegades Vs. Slann/SM soon. Hope the
> 4.1
> rules comes out before then, so there won't be any more complaints:)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Ramos [mailto:primarch_at_...]
> Sent: 10. februar 2001 19:39
> To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] Return of the slann
>
>
> Hi!
>
> I agree in theory, but id really like to see how this would be done.
> Also, remember that everybody hasnt got ALL of the different exodite,
> necron and slann figures. Ive based my purchases on the 1.0 list, and
> would really hate to find that id have to spend another $200 to buy
> more units, or to see units i already have incompatible with my other
> units.
>
> Very important point. I will list what would tentatively consist of each
> army list and we can all input what units can overlap and which can't, so as
> to validate everyones present collections.
>
>
> Well, i agree that there should be weapon conformity. Some units, like
> the Vanguards, will have to have their prices adjusted though..
>
> Most certainly. The exodus will need the larger points reductions, but ture
> slann infantry will probably be reduced 50-100 points. As with the army list
> a full list of slann costs will be listed again for discussion.
>
>
> GREAT MAGUS
>
> Many problems with the powers too overblown.
>
> I really havnt noticed this at all. Besides, there are plenty
> of psychics/magicians which have are more powerful. Chaos
> magi come to mind :)
>
> In practice its not so much the power on its own, but the combination with
> some tactics that make it alittle overwhelming. Note the power are still
> strong, but there is a chance of failure, albiet small rather than no chance
> of failure.
>
>
> Subjugation, this power permits double actions (a big no,
> no), the power
> should read "affects unit that has not been activated", still
> powerful,
> but within reason.
>
> This is a given..
>
>
> Nullify psychic, this is an automatci power, too good, power
> successful
> on roll of 3+, still good but now within reason.
>
>
> One word : Librerian. This guy stops ALL psychic attacks if the
> roll is made (1d6+2 isnt it? The opponent rolls 1d6?). Ive always
> wondered what would happen if a Librerian met a Great Mage and
> both used their nullify powers to nullify the others nullify attempt :)
>
> The librarian can't "stop" psychic attacks, he can battle a psyker directly.
> The two powers do two different things. The librarian tries to destroy the
> psyker where as the magus eliminates spell effects in play or otherwise.
> Lets say a eldar warlock cast eldritch strom, the magus can roll a 3+ and
> nullify it. He does attack the warlock like a librarian would, just the
> power. No other unit in epic an dissipate powers, its a really good power,
> too good to be automatic. Just think, he could dissipate, storms, psychic
> locks, dominatrix shield, tzeentch vortex, and a lot more.
>
>
> His CAF is reduced to +4, he doens't really fight much, his +1
> initiative is substituted with a +2 bonus for warp jumps,
> thats his job
> after all. Attack dice is 1 with a 4+ to hit.
>
>
> Hmm...this is pretty drastic. He used to be able to defend himself
> if he moved around. Now he's reduced to a "stand in cover" unit.
> I really dont like this idea...
>
> He's the CAF of a librarian, thats pretty good, also remember he has
> battlesuit armor to jump pack around the table. Also he will get the +2 to
> warp jump rolls for accompanying units. Imagine this guy leading some necron
> assault units.... He's got a lot of good stuff, too high a CAF makes it too
> good. Besides he's not supposed to be on his own, but supported.
>
>
> Remember to adjust the cost...
>
> I think the cost before they went up would be good.
>
>
> Ive never even used the scarabs :)
>
> Beleive me you didn't miss anything, way too fiddly.
>
>
> The CAF changes have been tested and raiders will have a +1 CAF and
> assaults +3. Remember their powers make their CAF higher than
> just this
> number. Raiders are shooters so their to hit stays at 4+.
>
>
> If you're going to do this, id like to see a save modifier on the
> raiders weapons. They are, as you say, shooters. I also think
> that Necrons should have higher breakpoints due to their nature.
>
> I agree here, a -1 modifier is in order no doubt. Also the break point
> should be higher since they dont suffer morale, sort of like squat break
> points, but ONLY for necron infantry not vehicles or others. The cost would
> remain the same.
>
>
> Necron lord CAF is +5, then again with standard necron powers
> make this
> guy as good as a terminator HQ.
>
> Regenerate does not work in close assault.
>
> Necron dreadnought are units of 3 and their cannon stats are, 50cm, 1
> attack dice, 4+ to hit, -2 modifier.
>
> Necron vehicles, the changes are mostly to conform with
> standarization
> of miniguns and a 4+ to hit "cap" on main guns, attack dice and
> modifiers remain the same, so does "repair".
>
> The cubekeepers CAF is off it should be +1.
>
>
> Ok, but the cost should come down..
>
> Again we will re-evaluate all cost. On a glance I think all will go down at
> least 50 points maybe even 100 in the case of units that had to hits of 3+
> and now are 4+.
>
>
> I'd like to make one more comment on the changes. When i first saw
> the Slann, i thought : "damn, here's the army i always wanted to
> play! Extremely good, pricey units. Quality, not quantity".
> So, why did they change? Why not up the cost until they're fair?
> They've been steadily reduced, instead of upping the cost, which
> is they road id rather have taken. If the cost is right, there
> has to be a point where quality and quantity balance. Of course,
> im just one person, and my personal preferences dont count much
> in the grand Epic scheme, but i really liked the whole "elitism"
> idea (and no, im not a Nazi ;). Sure, they are still good, but for
> me the thrill is gone. I guess Epic is based on numbers, and there
> really isnt a place for a small but elite army. Strategy wise, its
> much harder to play a small army, which i a!
>
> !
>
> lso like...
>
> Point taken. Like I said I've seen ost of this in action and your units are
> still VERY effective. Wait til you use the newer warp jump rules, while
> risky, imagine a slan mage in mech armor leading a mech unit with its +2
> bonus, pretty long jumps, You might lose some, but you have the legendary
> slann precision and deep attack that no army has. The CAF on the necron
> units with their innate powers make them equivalent of higher CAF unit. Even
> raiders are a match for roughriders and bikes and only trolls and such can
> hope to defeat assault necrons. With the increased break point you get the
> desired effect of hard hitting troops that last a long time.
>
> Necron vehicles are virtually the same.
>
> Uping the cost runs into the problem of too small armies. After all you want
> to feel like you indeed have an army not a skirmish force. Still their
> armies are pretty small, that hasn't changed at all. The changes, with
> exception of the warp jump rules are more cosmetic than anything else. The
> still play the same and the tactics are the same (some work even better
> now).
>
> Trust me, I want to keep their "feel" as much as you do, because I too am
> heavily invested in collection their army (35000+ at this point!). But at
> the end of the day though I dont want anyone complaining about cheesiness
> and such. I realize you cannot please everyone, but the complaints given and
> more importantly the resolutions are VERY reasonable. Also note on certain
> points I will not budge, like repair for necron filers, as I say "a necron
> is a necron" whether it flies or not.
>
> Try out the changes, you'll be pleased and when you slay your enemies before
> you they can only envy your generalship. Cries of "too good" will have no
> validity anymore since most of these changes were suggested by non-slann
> players themselves. Besides its sweet to kick ass with suggestions the enemy
> has made!!
>
> I will soon post the prosed units for exodus and necron with the proposed
> points cost.
>
> Thanks for the input!!
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Sun Feb 11 2001 - 16:23:51 UTC