The + to initiative was to show that the Magus had pyschic comun with his
comanders on the battlefield, And since the Slann are always going to be
outnumbered I belive that they should retain this power. To help them make
other armies move first, thus helping them balance out the ability to out
move them with mass numbers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Ramos" <primarch_at_...>
To: <netepic_at_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] Return of the slann
> Hi!
>
> You can attempt really long jumps now, but the rate of model loss is
> higher too. It adds that bit of uncertainty since the enemy can not
> predict how far you can go.
>
> The "leaders" warp jump ability apples to the detachment it "leads",
> read as is in coherency with. I have always disliked initiative bonuses,
> besides the magus's and others job is to navigate the warp, not predict
> the future.
>
> The librarian has not been changed. He could never nullify attacks, he
> can only "purge psyker", which means engage the psyker itself. Only the
> slann can dispel powers.
>
> I'll be editing the rules, before I give them to Daniel for final editing.
>
> Peter
>
> Karlsen Rune wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > Thanx for the positive feedback :) I was a little worried for a while.
Guess
> > the changes wont
> > affect the tactics, and the warp changes might even open up for new
"cheesy"
> > moves.
> > I can just hear the complaints now :)
> > Has the librerian been changed btw? Not that im an IG expert, but i seem
to
> > remember Nils
> > telling me he could use it to stop any and all psycher
attacks...hmm..maybe
> > my memory
> > is failing me in my "old" age ;)
> > The +2 bonus the Mage would apply to accompaning warp jump units, would
that
> > apply to
> > a detachment only? I'll really miss the +1 initiative bonus :(
> >
> > I agree, it would be sweet to kick ass with the new units. We're trying
to
> > have a joint
> > 10k point battle between chaos/chaos renegades Vs. Slann/SM soon. Hope
the
> > 4.1
> > rules comes out before then, so there won't be any more complaints:)
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Ramos [mailto:primarch_at_...]
> > Sent: 10. februar 2001 19:39
> > To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] Return of the slann
> >
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > I agree in theory, but id really like to see how this would be done.
> > Also, remember that everybody hasnt got ALL of the different exodite,
> > necron and slann figures. Ive based my purchases on the 1.0 list, and
> > would really hate to find that id have to spend another $200 to buy
> > more units, or to see units i already have incompatible with my other
> > units.
> >
> > Very important point. I will list what would tentatively consist of each
> > army list and we can all input what units can overlap and which can't,
so as
> > to validate everyones present collections.
> >
> >
> > Well, i agree that there should be weapon conformity. Some units, like
> > the Vanguards, will have to have their prices adjusted though..
> >
> > Most certainly. The exodus will need the larger points reductions, but
ture
> > slann infantry will probably be reduced 50-100 points. As with the army
list
> > a full list of slann costs will be listed again for discussion.
> >
> >
> > GREAT MAGUS
> >
> > Many problems with the powers too overblown.
> >
> > I really havnt noticed this at all. Besides, there are plenty
> > of psychics/magicians which have are more powerful. Chaos
> > magi come to mind :)
> >
> > In practice its not so much the power on its own, but the combination
with
> > some tactics that make it alittle overwhelming. Note the power are still
> > strong, but there is a chance of failure, albiet small rather than no
chance
> > of failure.
> >
> >
> > Subjugation, this power permits double actions (a big no,
> > no), the power
> > should read "affects unit that has not been activated", still
> > powerful,
> > but within reason.
> >
> > This is a given..
> >
> >
> > Nullify psychic, this is an automatci power, too good, power
> > successful
> > on roll of 3+, still good but now within reason.
> >
> >
> > One word : Librerian. This guy stops ALL psychic attacks if the
> > roll is made (1d6+2 isnt it? The opponent rolls 1d6?). Ive always
> > wondered what would happen if a Librerian met a Great Mage and
> > both used their nullify powers to nullify the others nullify attempt :)
> >
> > The librarian can't "stop" psychic attacks, he can battle a psyker
directly.
> > The two powers do two different things. The librarian tries to destroy
the
> > psyker where as the magus eliminates spell effects in play or otherwise.
> > Lets say a eldar warlock cast eldritch strom, the magus can roll a 3+
and
> > nullify it. He does attack the warlock like a librarian would, just the
> > power. No other unit in epic an dissipate powers, its a really good
power,
> > too good to be automatic. Just think, he could dissipate, storms,
psychic
> > locks, dominatrix shield, tzeentch vortex, and a lot more.
> >
> >
> > His CAF is reduced to +4, he doens't really fight much, his +1
> > initiative is substituted with a +2 bonus for warp jumps,
> > thats his job
> > after all. Attack dice is 1 with a 4+ to hit.
> >
> >
> > Hmm...this is pretty drastic. He used to be able to defend himself
> > if he moved around. Now he's reduced to a "stand in cover" unit.
> > I really dont like this idea...
> >
> > He's the CAF of a librarian, thats pretty good, also remember he has
> > battlesuit armor to jump pack around the table. Also he will get the +2
to
> > warp jump rolls for accompanying units. Imagine this guy leading some
necron
> > assault units.... He's got a lot of good stuff, too high a CAF makes it
too
> > good. Besides he's not supposed to be on his own, but supported.
> >
> >
> > Remember to adjust the cost...
> >
> > I think the cost before they went up would be good.
> >
> >
> > Ive never even used the scarabs :)
> >
> > Beleive me you didn't miss anything, way too fiddly.
> >
> >
> > The CAF changes have been tested and raiders will have a +1 CAF and
> > assaults +3. Remember their powers make their CAF higher than
> > just this
> > number. Raiders are shooters so their to hit stays at 4+.
> >
> >
> > If you're going to do this, id like to see a save modifier on the
> > raiders weapons. They are, as you say, shooters. I also think
> > that Necrons should have higher breakpoints due to their nature.
> >
> > I agree here, a -1 modifier is in order no doubt. Also the break point
> > should be higher since they dont suffer morale, sort of like squat break
> > points, but ONLY for necron infantry not vehicles or others. The cost
would
> > remain the same.
> >
> >
> > Necron lord CAF is +5, then again with standard necron powers
> > make this
> > guy as good as a terminator HQ.
> >
> > Regenerate does not work in close assault.
> >
> > Necron dreadnought are units of 3 and their cannon stats are, 50cm, 1
> > attack dice, 4+ to hit, -2 modifier.
> >
> > Necron vehicles, the changes are mostly to conform with
> > standarization
> > of miniguns and a 4+ to hit "cap" on main guns, attack dice and
> > modifiers remain the same, so does "repair".
> >
> > The cubekeepers CAF is off it should be +1.
> >
> >
> > Ok, but the cost should come down..
> >
> > Again we will re-evaluate all cost. On a glance I think all will go down
at
> > least 50 points maybe even 100 in the case of units that had to hits of
3+
> > and now are 4+.
> >
> >
> > I'd like to make one more comment on the changes. When i first saw
> > the Slann, i thought : "damn, here's the army i always wanted to
> > play! Extremely good, pricey units. Quality, not quantity".
> > So, why did they change? Why not up the cost until they're fair?
> > They've been steadily reduced, instead of upping the cost, which
> > is they road id rather have taken. If the cost is right, there
> > has to be a point where quality and quantity balance. Of course,
> > im just one person, and my personal preferences dont count much
> > in the grand Epic scheme, but i really liked the whole "elitism"
> > idea (and no, im not a Nazi ;). Sure, they are still good, but for
> > me the thrill is gone. I guess Epic is based on numbers, and there
> > really isnt a place for a small but elite army. Strategy wise, its
> > much harder to play a small army, which i a!
> >
> > !
> >
> > lso like...
> >
> > Point taken. Like I said I've seen ost of this in action and your units
are
> > still VERY effective. Wait til you use the newer warp jump rules, while
> > risky, imagine a slan mage in mech armor leading a mech unit with its +2
> > bonus, pretty long jumps, You might lose some, but you have the
legendary
> > slann precision and deep attack that no army has. The CAF on the necron
> > units with their innate powers make them equivalent of higher CAF unit.
Even
> > raiders are a match for roughriders and bikes and only trolls and such
can
> > hope to defeat assault necrons. With the increased break point you get
the
> > desired effect of hard hitting troops that last a long time.
> >
> > Necron vehicles are virtually the same.
> >
> > Uping the cost runs into the problem of too small armies. After all you
want
> > to feel like you indeed have an army not a skirmish force. Still their
> > armies are pretty small, that hasn't changed at all. The changes, with
> > exception of the warp jump rules are more cosmetic than anything else.
The
> > still play the same and the tactics are the same (some work even better
> > now).
> >
> > Trust me, I want to keep their "feel" as much as you do, because I too
am
> > heavily invested in collection their army (35000+ at this point!). But
at
> > the end of the day though I dont want anyone complaining about
cheesiness
> > and such. I realize you cannot please everyone, but the complaints given
and
> > more importantly the resolutions are VERY reasonable. Also note on
certain
> > points I will not budge, like repair for necron filers, as I say "a
necron
> > is a necron" whether it flies or not.
> >
> > Try out the changes, you'll be pleased and when you slay your enemies
before
> > you they can only envy your generalship. Cries of "too good" will have
no
> > validity anymore since most of these changes were suggested by non-slann
> > players themselves. Besides its sweet to kick ass with suggestions the
enemy
> > has made!!
> >
> > I will soon post the prosed units for exodus and necron with the
proposed
> > points cost.
> >
> > Thanks for the input!!
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Received on Sun Feb 11 2001 - 20:21:51 UTC