Re: [NetEpic ML] Titan CC

From: Peter Ramos <primarch_at_...>
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 13:05:52 -0500

Hi!

Karlsen Rune wrote:

> Yes, you're right, im talking about the lure of slaanesh.
> But, as far as i know, there isnt a moral check. At least,
> the legion which gets the card doesnt have a check.
> Thats the way its been played at least. I dont doubt
> that ive been screwed over by the chaos players,
> since i really dont know that much about how the army
> works. I mean, ive read the rules, but ive not
> memorized them :)

The chaos marine legion gift card, when used, is automatic in effect,
but effects ONE unit as per its orders within 25cm range. The primarch
fulgrim power requires morale checks, but can affect more units.

I have seen it all as far as chaos. Its one of the armies i play more
frequently. For every one player who says chaos is hard to beat with "x"
army, another tells me he can't win a game with chaos because they are
weak.

The main problem is not all the cards but the precious few "real good
ones" in the deck and their interpretation. I'm going to assume the
chaos cards are given out randdmly as per teh rules and the chaos player
is not "selecting" them. If not theres your first major problem.

>
> This is only one of the things i find strange about some
> chaos powers. Like the way some dont discriminate between
> good units or lousy ones. The burning bodies card,
> for example. Since its a non-physical psychic card,
> it doesnt differenciate between units. No matter if
> they are 0 CAF infantry with no save which are
> a dime a dousin, or Vanguards with 4+ fixed save.

Why should they discrimiate? I have have a saying for this "magic is
magic and it affects anything". Most of the powerful magic affects the
mind/soul so armor doesn't amount to much. Those powers that grant saves
and have modifiers are thwarted by fixed saves. So powers DO
discriminate, BUT it depends which you are talking about.

>
> These cards may not be that valuable when playing
> against f.ex IG, they are indeed game killers when
> played against the Slann. Not to mention that
> every time we play chaos, there are A LOT of discussions
> about rules and powers. The result is always : "Can
> affect any unit" or "Can be played at any time".
> I agree its in chaos' nature to be unpredictable,
> but if they were this good, they'd have overrun
> the universe a long time ago....Who can stand a chance
> except those who have units like the astropath?

Thats the point fight power with power. If you battle chaos without even
one psyker your asking for trouble. Even one gives you that certain
edge. Do you absolutely need it to win? No. But then you must come up
with different ways to deal with different strategies.

> Our chaos player has also adopted a very good strategy
> against us. He simply hides his demons, so that
> we cant take any cards away from him, and use
> his legions and juggers to attack. VERY effective
> in conjunction with some of the awesome "no save, no how"
> powers/cards. I've pointed out that a demon would
> probably not hide behind buildings, and would certainly
> not retreat into the setup zone to hide behind a
> building. He certainly agrees to this, but there are
> no rules against this, and wont admit that its
> cheesy. Its in fact a very sound tactic! Never mind
> that the demons behave like cowards :)

Some chaos players do this, I dont find it distressing, actually I like
it, because when they hide they can use some of their powers due to lack
of LOS, more importantly most of their powers are short ranged, so if
they are not being used agressively they will never be used against my
main line hanging back shooting.

Ask Darius and Ed how I play my greater demons, they never hide, better
to use its awesome powers once and then die, to hide and not use it at
all, its a waste. This style of play rarely influences the number of
cards I have in my hand, becasue I am willing to let a demon die, rather
to expend cards i need elsewhere.

The jugger/bloodletter assault are all too familar to me and very easily
swept aside with water ever army you use, here the simple do and donts:

Against juggers
1. hide in terrain they cant go in namely buildings, it doesn't matter
how good they are if they can't get you
2. shot them long before they reach you. Its a common mistake to wait
when they are in charging distance to fire at them. Make them your
targets with barrages or whatever you got from the get go. The less they
are before they reach you the better.
3. sacrificial lamb- commonly players use their fast attack vehicles in
predicable forward rushes. Why not keep them in reserve until they are
in range and charge THEM first. You may not breal them, but its another
turn they dont move forward and you shot them to pieces, especially on
advance fire after the fight is over
4. fighting withdrawl- use units with a fair amount of firepower and
range, shoot on advance then move on advance backwards. It will give you
at least one turn bonus for shooting at them. It takes a frontline
jugger 3 turns to cross the 80cm that separates you, make it pay for
advancing.

Against bloodletters
1. use weapons that fire in the movement phase or orders phase like the
drop pods or wave serpent, even if you get ONE, they can't break
coherency with the regenerating unit, since it is not "dead". This stops
them for one turn, while you turn up the heat.
2. snap fire, I know you dont use it, but its the single most easiest
way to stop them while moving.
3. you can mix in some of the above "jugger" tactics too

>
> Like the game we played yesterday. Slann/SM vs. Chaos and
> Renegade armies. After 2 rounds, Chaos 104? Slann/SM 46 i
> think.. Both armies made mistakes, and they had quite
> a few lucky dice rolls (like taking out a scout titan
> with 3 shots from HW infantry. BUT, its just too good
> when they can charge an OP, make the unit invis after CC,
> and noone can shoot in. And take out a titan in one
> average rolled shot. And take over a necron detachment
> after the overtakers had moved (no save of course,
> why would there be any, they're "chaos powers" after
> all), then play a chaos card on that very same detachment
> (after CC) and charge 10 more cms to another detachment.
> One by one, they're not gamekillers. Together, they
> are. With chaos cards, you can always adjust. They're
> more than equalizers. Before i played chaos, i saw
> the discussions going on on this list, but i never
> really took any notice of them. Now i understand what
> they were all griping about..

I repeat, they are getting their cards randomly..right? You seem to
mention the same powers each and every game. Out of a deck of 42 cards
ther are only 12 cards that good, to get them in every game you have
mentioned is odd....

Still, I dont see the problem, but I think its more your lack of
exposure to certain "deadly" combinations. The
"charge-win-close-combat-and-use-another-card-to-fight-again-or-become-insivible"
ploy is well known to me. Only ONE unit can do it, because the cards
will be discarded afterwards. The best defense is to avoid being in the
situation to begin with. He can only do this to you in open ground or
other terrain the juggers can move around, so dont dump troops in such a
place. I usually use bait, leave one such unit in an objective in open
ground, and lots of firepwoer in surrounding terrain (well farther than
10cm). He could still go invisible fine, but remember an invsibile unit
CANNOT act in any way after the power takes affect. So just roll in a
friendly unit and contest teh objective, its neither his or yours. The
list of anti-tricks is long, but its a matter of your familiarity with them.

>
> The good news is that we all agreed the Slann look good
> now. We thought the necron titan is overpriced at 750,
> but thats just after one game. Against another army,
> it might be more balanced. I can certainly understand
> why noone wanted to play against the Slann before
> they were balanced (except Nils of course, he loves
> to be the underdog), i have just the same feeling
> against chaos. I cant imagine how its possible to
> beat chaos with the orks for example...

Good, I thought as much, As for chaos, your "new" to them, it takes some
getting used to their "tricks" once thats out of the way, counterploys
become easier to deal with.

Peter
Received on Sun Mar 04 2001 - 18:05:52 UTC