Yeha I guess we will... :)
The reason for asking this is because of a certain imperial psycker.....
with a certain power of nullyfying.....
Nils
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Ramos [mailto:primarch_at_...]
Sent: 5. mars 2001 19:20
To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] Titan CC
Hi!
heheh, you guys remind me of the first two epic groups I was a part of way
back in the day. We used to agrue the crap out of each other and say that
teh other was a cheesemonger or other such stuff. Ahhh.. the nostalgia,
oddly enough I miss those days.
Chaos power are "psychic" since all powers derive from the same place the
warp, or course this means psy-saves and shields apply to those not physical
in nature.
Now word or caution, any power, even cards ONLY grant a save IF the power
directly affects the model with the save. By teh this I mean powers that
affect the unit casting it, lets say the growth card or some kind of shield
CANNOT be negated by psy-saves or shields since the power is not directed
towards it. I have faced this question before, so I pre-empt in case its on
anyones mind <grin>.
Chaos card invoke fear far beyond their meager powers, even the good ones
when badly used yield miserable results. Since you are mostly new to chaos,
consider this your "honeymoon" period. These types of discussions are
common, but once you get used to them and the novelty wears out, its old
hat. Remember a particularly great trick with one or more chaos cards works
great the first time, but less so every single additional time you use it.
Its the learning curve, have fun with it.
Peter
nils.saugen_at_... <mailto:nils.saugen_at_...> wrote:
Thanks Peter!
I know Chaos is really frustrating the heck out of Rune, and he's had it
though with us pulling apart his Slann army since it first appeared and
caught his interest! Neither of us is familiar with Chaos, so we are
learning while we play. It' dosent help matters much, that our Chaos player
is a really devious SoB. :)
And Yes, we draw randomly from the deck!!!! By the way, are Chaos Cards
regarded as psychic powers?
What's really strange is that when playing chaos you never think much of
your cards, while the opponent greatly fears them.... They are best used in
combination with each other.
As for Deamons hiding, The bloothirster moved forward as fast as it could,
through a forrest overcrouded with fanatics and trolls killed of the
oposition.
Fulgrim took care of business in our set up sone, where t!
!
!
he enemy had landed
their droppods, and he could do that behind a building.
Magnus the Red was plased behind som buildings hiding him from half the
board, while he was visible to the other half. But he has got a great
range!!!
As for the rest of the battle, both sides made a lot of mistakes (I guess
that's what happens when you play battles this size), we Certainly had
better die rolls (I killed a Warhound with 3 shots from a fanatic support
detachment....!!!). But the Chaos Army was better put thogether and we had
IMO a far better battleplan, we had designated goals for every detachment in
our army. We planned for supported assaults against all objective points and
managed to capture 6 out of the 8 points.
Nils
Other than that, and this goes for all special units, you pay to put them on
the board, and it's stupid not to use them. I cant count the number of times
I've brought along psyckers and never gotten to u!
!
!
se them.... Thats poor
play!!!!
Nils
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Ramos [ mailto:primarch_at_...
<mailto:primarch_at_...> ]
Sent: 4. mars 2001 19:06
To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:netepic_at_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] Titan CC
Hi!
Karlsen Rune wrote:
Yes, you're right, im talking about the lure of slaanesh.
But, as far as i know, there isnt a moral check. At least,
the legion which gets the card doesnt have a check.
Thats the way its been played at least. I dont doubt
that ive been screwed over by the chaos players,
since i really dont know that much about how the army
works. I mean, ive read the rules, but ive not
memorized them :)
The chaos marine legion gift card, when used, is automatic in effect,
but effects ONE unit as per its orders within 25cm range. The primarch
fulgrim power requires morale checks, but can affect more units.
I have seen it all as far as chaos. Its one of the armies i play more
frequently. For every one player who says chaos is hard to beat with "x"
army, another tells me he can't win a game with chaos because they are
weak.
The main problem is not all the cards but the precious few "real good
ones" in the deck and their interpretation. I'm going to assume the
chaos cards are given out randdmly as per teh rules and the chaos player
is not "selecting" them. If not theres your first major problem.
This is only one of the things i find strange about some
chaos powers. Like the way some dont discriminate between
good units or lousy ones. The burning bodies card,
for example. Since its a non-physical psychic card,
it doesnt differenciate between units. No matter if
they are 0 CAF infantry with no save which are
a dime a dousin, or Vanguards with 4+ fixed save.
Why should they discrimiate? I have have a saying for this "magic is
magic and it affects anything". Most of the powerful magic affects the
mind/soul so armor doesn't amount to much. Those powers that grant saves
and have modifiers are thwarted by fixed saves. So powers DO
discriminate, BUT it depends which you are talking about.
These cards may not be that valuable when playing
against f.ex IG, they are indeed game killers when
played against the Slann. Not to mention that
every time we play chaos, there are A LOT of discussions
about rules and powers. The result is always : "Can
affect any unit" or "Can be played at any time".
I agree its in chaos' nature to be unpredictable,
but if they were this good, they'd have overrun
the universe a long time ago....Who can stand a chance
except those who have units like the astropath?
Thats the point fight power with power. If you battle chaos without even
one psyker your asking for trouble. Even one gives you that certain
edge. Do you absolutely need it to win? No. But then you must come up
with different ways to deal with different strategies.
Our chaos player has also adopted a very good strategy
against us. He simply hides his demons, so that
we cant take any cards away from him, and use
his legions and juggers to attack. VERY effective
in conjunction with some of the awesome "no save, no how"
powers/cards. I've pointed out that a demon would
probably not hide behind buildings, and would certainly
not retreat into the setup zone to hide behind a
building. He certainly agrees to this, but there are
no rules against this, and wont admit that its
cheesy. Its in fact a very sound tactic! Never mind
that the demons behave like cowards :)
Some chaos players do this, I dont find it distressing, actually I like
it, because when they hide they can use some of their powers due to lack
of LOS, more importantly most of their powers are short ranged, so if
they are not being used agressively they will never be used against my
main line hanging back shooting.
Ask Darius and Ed how I play my greater demons, they never hide, better
to use its awesome powers once and then die, to hide and not use it at
all, its a waste. This style of play rarely influences the number of
cards I have in my hand, becasue I am willing to let a demon die, rather
to expend cards i need elsewhere.
The jugger/bloodletter assault are all too familar to me and very easily
swept aside with water ever army you use, here the simple do and donts:
Against juggers
1. hide in terrain they cant go in namely buildings, it doesn't matter
how good they are if th!
!
!
ey can't get you
2. shot them long before they reach you. Its a common mistake to wait
when they are in charging distance to fire at them. Make them your
targets with barrages or whatever you got from the get go. The less they
are before they reach you the better.
3. sacrificial lamb- commonly players use their fast attack vehicles in
predicable forward rushes. Why not keep them in reserve until they are
in range and charge THEM first. You may not breal them, but its another
turn they dont move forward and you shot them to pieces, especially on
advance fire after the fight is over
4. fighting withdrawl- use units with a fair amount of firepower and
range, shoot on advance then move on advance backwards. It will give you
at least one turn bonus for shooting at them. It takes a frontline
jugger 3 turns to cross the 80cm that separates you, make it pay for
advancing.
Against bloodletters
1. use weapons that fire in t!
!
!
he movement phase or orders phase like the
drop pods or wave serpent, even if you get ONE, they can't break
coherency with the regenerating unit, since it is not "dead". This stops
them for one turn, while you turn up the heat.
2. snap fire, I know you dont use it, but its the single most easiest
way to stop them while moving.
3. you can mix in some of the above "jugger" tactics too
Like the game we played yesterday. Slann/SM vs. Chaos and
Renegade armies. After 2 rounds, Chaos 104? Slann/SM 46 i
think.. Both armies made mistakes, and they had quite
a few lucky dice rolls (like taking out a scout titan
with 3 shots from HW infantry. BUT, its just too good
when they can charge an OP, make the unit invis after CC,
and noone can shoot in. And take out a titan in one
average rolled shot. And take over a necron detachment
after the overtakers had moved (no save of course,
why would there be any, they're "chaos powers" after
all), then play a chaos card on that very same detachment
(after CC) and charge 10 more cms to another detachment.
One by one, they're not gamekillers. Together, they
are. With chaos cards, you can always adjust. They're
more than equalizers. Before i played chaos, i saw
the discussions going on on this list, but i never
really took any notice of!
!
!
them. Now i understand what
they were all griping about..
I repeat, they are getting their cards randomly..right? You seem to
mention the same powers each and every game. Out of a deck of 42 cards
ther are only 12 cards that good, to get them in every game you have
mentioned is odd....
Still, I dont see the problem, but I think its more your lack of
exposure to certain "deadly" combinations. The
"charge-win-close-combat-and-use-another-card-to-fight-again-or-become-insiv
ible"
ploy is well known to me. Only ONE unit can do it, because the cards
will be discarded afterwards. The best defense is to avoid being in the
situation to begin with. He can only do this to you in open ground or
other terrain the juggers can move around, so dont dump troops in such a
place. I usually use bait, leave one such unit in an objective in open
ground, and lots of firepwoer in surrounding terrain (well farther than
10cm). He could still go invisible fine, but r!
!
!
emember an invsibile unit
CANNOT act in any way after the power takes affect. So just roll in a
friendly unit and contest teh objective, its neither his or yours. The
list of anti-tricks is long, but its a matter of your familiarity with them.
The good news is that we all agreed the Slann look good
now. We thought the necron titan is overpriced at 750,
but thats just after one game. Against another army,
it might be more balanced. I can certainly understand
why noone wanted to play against the Slann before
they were balanced (except Nils of course, he loves
to be the underdog), i have just the same feeling
against chaos. I cant imagine how its possible to
beat chaos with the orks for example...
Good, I thought as much, As for chaos, your "new" to them, it takes some
getting used to their "tricks" once thats out of the way, counterploys
become easier to deal with.
Peter
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Received on Tue Mar 06 2001 - 07:29:26 UTC