Re: [NetEpic ML] Re: Chaos Marines: a bargain & typos

From: Albert Farré Benet <cibernyam_at_...>
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 03:53:06 +0100

Hi!

OK I can Accept there are some cheaper units for every army (which one is for non detailed chapter of SM? I don't want to use Dark Angels or Space Wolves so...I adapted Ravenwing for my Chapter, if those semi-traitors got one, my chapter will also get one. Same company with a different layer of paint)

BUT I don't agree with your point of view on CSM chapters. Take one Primarch (because you HAVE TO take greater demons or primarchs, so in the end, you gonna take anyone primarch anyway, and there are some good ones you will choose even without CSM), a CSM chapter and three rhinos detachments. You have a far better tactical SM company card with transports for a 100 points less. OK, you got to buy the primarch, but as I said you had to buy it anyway, because you have to buy greater demons or primarchs. And I don't think you regret getting the Primarch.

Cheaper units might be the least bad solution but if you add an aura after making the unit cheaper, isn't a bit too much? I find them REALLY cheap. Has anyone seen a game with Chaos in one side without CSM? Do you wonder why?


Albert
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: primarch_at_...
  To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 3:30 AM
  Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Chaos Marines: a bargain & typos


  Hi!

  Albert Farré Benet wrote:
  Hi everybody,

  I'm going to talk about the cheapest unit in Space Marine: Chaos
  Marines Chapter (old card)

  "First of all, I have to notice that Chaos Space Marines chapter cards
  don't have break point nor morale value which I think this is more
  important to have printed on the card, than troop stats which anyway
  is also on the book."

  Oops! Your right, big omission, need to write those in.

  "I rarely see Tactical SM being used (because of their poor shooting
  -they can't even be used to take down shields-, their comparative low
  CAF -Assault are equally priced- and little specialization. If any
  Marine player has used them in more than 5 battles he could tell me)
  but I think they are correctly priced. I DO NOT think Chaos Marines
  are correctly priced, they should cost at least 650 points the company
  and 225 the support card. Also, look at IG support company: same
  number of stands, same STM, same move, aprox. same to hit probability
  (1 dice 4+=50%, 2 dice 5+=56%), much lesser morale, Chain of command
  rule, less CAF, no elite, no special power, the only good point to IG
  is weapon range (is it really worth a plus of 50/100 points?) Cost for
  a support card 200 points (200/5=40(!) points every stand). Cost of a
  Company 600 (say...50, points for company HQ?)"

  It has been a longly debated topic that each army gets the so called
  "cheap" units. Real good units at a relatively cheap price. There is
  no army immune to this they al have them, I suspect that you'll hear
  the moans about the eldar windrider host, ork clan costs, roughrider
  company and many more. The fact is that every army has its "bargains".
  Chaos is no exception. Having said that, 16 stands that have too walk
  everywhere, because transport of any kind must be bought, added to the
  fact you can't add anything to the chaos legion card, its not a
  company card, just a bonus card a primarch must attach, the
  flexibility of this card becomes clear. It has none. A tactical marine
  company card is priced at 750, but you can add as much or as little as
  you want, the ultimate in flexibility. Card cost must take into
  account not only unit effectiveness, but how easy it is to field and
  how much you pay to earn the right to purchase it. You may down play
  this fact, but it remains, you MUST buy one primarch, three support
  cards before you can even entertain buying the "bonus" chapter. Rather
  expensive isn't it? Card cost MUST also consider this. If you could
  bring the chaos legion card like any other company card, then I must
  agree the cost is low. But this is not the case, to do so I must
  invest first, then see if I have enough points to go for the
  priviledge of acquiring this card. Given these restrictions the price
  is fine as is. Also, why change the cost of support cards of marines
  if you changed the company card? They have no chaos affiliation thus
  gain no powers, you can't add them to the company and say well I can
  use their power on these extra detachment. A chaos legion is a finite
  amount of troops 16 stands, no more, no less and their powers apply to
  that finite group.

  As for tactical marine companies, I use them in every game I play SM.
  They are cheaper than battle companies and devastator companies, have
  better CAF than devastators (netepic reduced their CAF to +1) and they
  have 50cm range with rhinos. All in all a good buy. That they are not
  so flashy as otehr units, yes. That everyone goes through a phase of
  specialized "no-tactical" SM armies, yes. But in the end I find the
  tacticals fit in all my plans, cheaply and effectively.

  "The only BUT anybody can throw to me is, that you have to purchase a
  Primarch, but you had to purchase greater demons anyway, no? Except
  from the special power, all CM are the same with these rules, so with
  a medium army (4k+) you get some of them."

  You forget the three support cards you MUST add before you can even
  add this "bonus" card. Its a lot of points for the priviledge, thats
  why its cheaper, its not a real company card, more like a special
  cards with strings attached. Any support for them, must come from you
  greater demon slots. Things get tight pretty quick.


  "I think we should use Chaos Space Marine Army cards instead of old
  ones. I think there were some Chaos Space Marine army rules in NetEpic
  3. I think they should be used instead of these ones. Or use SM cards
  as CSM, so a tactical Chaos Space Marine company would be equal to a
  loyal tactical marine company, but, that's true, without a special power."

  Those are in the optional section now, where chaos cards function like
  company cards.

  Peter



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Received on Thu Mar 15 2001 - 02:53:06 UTC