Re: [Epic] Psychic Phase [was: Re: Titan Legions]

From: The Unknown Dwarf <leffewbe_at_...>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:20:37 -0500 (EST)

On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, Brett Hollindale wrote:


Well this is the last time i'm going to comment on this because it's
getting pretty pathetic, but i feel i should defend my army from unfounded
cheese calling.

> Actually my point is that this does NOT represent balance. If it did, it
> wouldn't be "cheesy"...

Sorry but you are wrong... at least IMO and in the opinion of most of my
opponants (never known one to disagree) that the squat SHV are balanced
becasue they are easier to kill than titans...

> No, I'm comparing all of the similar units and suggesting that since one of
> them costs the same as almost all of the others and is actually
> substantially better, (that would be higher CAF, better moral, higher
> breakpoint), then THAT would be cheesy...

You don't seem to understand that some units are just going to be better
than others... yes squat bikes are better than IG bikes, but IG bikes can
outnumber anyones bikes and as someone pointed out squat bikes are the
most expensive bikes in the game.

> Before Titan Legions, you bet they were! After Titan Legions, the Eldar
> bikes are probably the worst bikes in the game...

I'm sorry, but this is really sad, your criteria for cheese is whatever is
good or better than the army you pick it seems... why bother to have
different armies if some armies can't do some things better than other
armies...

> Of course! And here I stupidly thought that their moral was better because
> they were "cheesy"! When all along it was because they were SQUATS...
> (Wait a minute, are we arguing the same point and using different words for
> the same thing here?) :-)

You still aren't getting it... squat morale is the best because that's the
nature of dwarves in the warhammer universe... be it in WHFB, 40K, or
Epic. Just like elves are generally fast, orcs are generaly wild and
crazy, etc. That's NOT cheese it's the flavour of races.

> Some of the Eldar units meat my "cheese" criteria, but moral is not usually
> the deciding factor....

I'm sorry your cheese criteria IMO is so broad and also IMO bull that it
seems you must whine about cheese every game since so much seems to be
cheese to you.

> No, but since the Colossus packs (roughly) the same number of weapons as a
> Warlord (if anything, the Colossus packs more...) with a comparable save
> (from the side or rear, the Colossus is actually less vulnerable than the
> poor fragile Warlord, and from the front it's a near thing... In case you

Of course you don't see how a warlord could be cheesy, it's not squats or
eldar, it's human, that makes it not cheesy right there... First off, it's
obvious the warlord costs too much.. second, and i know this from
experiance with both squats and space marines that all 3 classes of battle
titan survive longer (void shields aside) because the colossus only gets
it's save, which is 1+ because it NEEDS to be, and if the save is failed
it dies... which is why it has a 1+ all around save and 6 void shields...
you still have to roll damage on a titan except in the case of certain
special weapons, but the colossus doesn't get any of that. I guess that
makes the reaver cheese then because it survives longer than something
that costs the same... and the colossus weapons while good are set in
stone and you can't change them... another thing the titans have over
them.

> Actually, the orcs have pulsa rokkits too. The point which seems to have
> escaped you is that the squats get it cheaper and better than anyone else.
> And hardly anyone takes Landtrains, because Colossi are SO much cheesier...

This is really pathetic... all you do is whine about cheese.

[Stuff accidentally sniped about the Cyclopes]

First off, no the Plasma Destructor doesn't have a 6 on the damage roll
and it's true you can't fire anything else or move, but it DOES have
multiple shots at a greater range with a firing arc. And as for the
cyclopes being able to fire other stuff... it doesn't have much else...
bolters, well everything big has bolters, 2 battle cannon shots, fine, but
needing a 5 means normally you need at least =3 shots to get one hit or
about that... 4 melta cannon shots... 35cm range means you most liklely
wont hit anything and it's missles are only 1 shot apiece, 4 barrage
points... all it is is a mobile hellfeury canon which is no where NEAR as
usefull as you seem to think and useless things can't be cheesy.

> That's CHEAPER _and_ HARDER HITTING. And, yeah, that's cheesy...

Again, that's sad... 1 SHOT, just ONE for 150pts per round.... even though
it's hard hitting they rarely do enough damage to justify their points.

> >Yeah, that's the nature of squats, higher break points and better morale,
>
> more cheese...

More whining... you still don't get it... well i guess since teh SM's
advantages include titans with the widest weapon selection, vast amount of
troops for every occassion, extremly fast flying transports that do the
same as 3 rhines except move ALOT faster and have real weapons but cost
the same, and IG hving the widest array of barrage weapons, athe
leviathan? built by the squats? uh-oh... well all that is CHEESE because
it's advantages they have over other armies... ok everyone, guess we all
have to play one generic army.

> I'm glad that you remember that this all started when you labelled the 'nids
> cheesy because they have too much something or other...

BZZZT! I NEVER said the tyranids were cheesy... i said that especially
after seeing the tyranids psychic abilities that the psychic phase/system
in epic OVERALL was very unbalanced... which is something i had felt for
awhile and know that i've seen all the armies played i really think it
is... not JUST because of tyranids and i DON'T consider them cheesy... i
consider the system GW designed to be very unbalanced psychicly.

> You don't seem particularly convinced by any of my arguments, but then it is
> wisely written that "there are none so blind as those who will not see".
> (Which means in this case that if you don't want the answer, don't ask the
> question.)

Which you haven't justified as anything more than whining IMO... If you
think squats are so cheesy, right to GW about it.

Look you think Squats (and alot of other things it seems) are cheesy and i
think you are just whining too much fine, we are obviously never going to
play each other so why don't we just agree to let it die as we will never
agree on this issue?

Brad Leffew
Orc DeathDealers Team Coach
Squat Warlord/Space Marine/Knight Commander
King of WHFB Bretonnia Army (newly aquired, love the models)
High King of WHFB Dwarf Army

"If we deny love that is given to us, if we refuse to give love because we
fear the pain of loss, then our lives will be empty, our loss greater.
        -Tanis Half-Elven "Dragons of Winter Night" by Margaret Weis

Clarkson University
leffewbe_at_...
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Received on Mon Jan 20 1997 - 18:20:37 UTC