Re: [Epic] Flyers

From: John Chapman <john_at_...>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:10:19 +1100 (EST)

> > With a gunnery value of 4 a THawk is going to cream almost anything
> > it shoots at - better a gargoyle than a Fighter Bomber.Finally compare the
> > gargoyle vs a Nightwing. Nightwings are no better than TBolts vs gargoyles yet
> > gargoyles can afford odds that are almost 50% better in their favour......
> Methinks you're getting Thunderbolts confused with Thunderhawks (before
> any Imperials get too excited!). The thunderbolt has a standard interceptor
> gunnery of 2.
        No Im not getting confused (though my post may not have been as clear
as it could have been). What I was trying to say here was that a good point
of the gargoyle is that something with a huge gunnery that is going to waste
ANYTHING can still only waste 1 unit. Now if I was intercepting THawks Id
rather have 5 gargoyles wasted when the THawks shoot back rather than 2
Nightwings. IN some cases cheaper is better. Also for a fighters effectiveness
you cant just consider it vs other fighters you have to consider how effective
they are going after the big birds. The higher intercept value of a NIghtwing
doesnt make it any better vs a Maurauder (for example) than a TBolt is.
Therefore as the TBolt is cheaper but does the same job it is a better fighter
in this situation - clearly.

> The nightwing _is_ the best fighter in the game.... try dealing with the blasted
> things with thunderbolts or fighter-bommaz! You get shot up before doing anything,
> just as gargoyles do. The difference is you can't afford lots of platforms to take the
> hits. Fighter for fighter, it's better than any other.
        Yes but fighter for fighter isnt a valid comparison given how the
flyer rules work. Unlike CC where theres limits of how many units can gang up
on a victim (only getting 2 to 1 max vs a Bloodthirster is a pain) you can
gang up pretty much however you like (within a single dogfight - multiple units
can make things a bit more tricky but if your opponent starts taking units of
1 aircraft he's paying a high price for command....). If youre expecting an
eldar player to turn up with 5 Nightwings and you want to go fighter to
fighter with him youre being pretty unreasonable if you expect 5 TBolts (175pt)
 to match his 225 point unit. Ok in reality an even point TBolt Vs Nightwing
dogfight should see the NIghtwings a comfortable winner - though in a 4 turn
game a unit of say 4 TBolts vs 3 Nightwings has a good chance of neither or
both units breaking (the rounding up of 1/2 strength helps the NWs here). But
for most other situations (Intercepting an opposing bomber , ground attack) the
TBolt is as good as the NW and cheaper hence better. Given the discrete units
in which you have to assign your gunnery (ie on a whole flyer basis) having
2 units which had the same gunnery/point ratio but where 1 type had 2 Gunnery
and 1 had 1 the fighter with 1 gunnery would be more flexible. If the above
2 units met some gargoyles the TBolts would have the chance to hit 4 gargoyles
but the Nightwings could only shoot at 3. The up side of this rule is it
prevents the THawk from being the grossest interceptor in the game in addition
to everything else(an 80 point interceptor only able to shoot at 1 flyer
every 2 turns - thats poor)...
Hows this for an analogy (hmm is that the right word?)-the Land Raider is
the best non WM tank in the game. If it was 100 points it would still,unit for
unit , be the best in the game but noone would touch it because they could
get a bunch of Lemann Russ' or Predators for the same price. Just because a
unit has great stats doesnt mean its an unbalancing or even a good unit. The
best (well most effective) units are ones that are highly efficient for their
points costs. Land Raiders are a good example of a unit like this.

        Ahhh something I forgot - dealing with NIghtwings when you have TBolts.
Apart from matching them point for point you may want to split your forces.
5 Nightwings cost 225. A unit of 3 TBolts costs 115 so for a whole 5 points
more you can have 2 units of 3. Now this isnt going to help you vs Nightwings
but will help if he has a unit of say Vampires. Now maybe Im reading the
flyer rules wrong but each unit gets ordered to intercept 1 other unit.
Intercept the vampires with both units of TBolts - 1 will get through
untouched - though the other will have a hard day at the office. Still the
Vampires you massacre should make up for the losses your TBolts take (hey
you only need one of his for 2 of yours to make it even in points and even
better youre screwing up his ground attack/transport mission too (and given
the added cost of the Vampires hes got a lot of points that arent doing their
job properly because of this)).
 If an opponent repeatedly takes.
only Nightwings - dont take flyers - theyre not a very points efficient source
of ground attacking power so you can afford to largely ignore them and with
the points you save take something thats going to have more of an effect.
Basically it can become a guessing game of who is
going to take what but thats normal for these games.

> As a personal opinion, I'd actually give the "best all-rounder" to the humble Ork
> fighter-bomma. They're as good as thunderbolts or doomwings in an intercept,
> and their barrage attack gives them the potential to generate as much firepower
> per unit cost as most bombers - more, in fact, if they get a juicy target like a
> big Tyranid swarm. Add that to the fact that they also act as the Orks' artillery,
> and, well, they do rate as being fairly vital (IMHO).
> Mike Reed
        For fighters Id have to say the best is pretty much a toss up btw the
TBolt and the FBz. THe FBz can force you to spread your force out a bit more
(and thus hinder you - score one for the Boyz...) but given the 15cm range the
TBolts probably find it easier to find targets for their 2FP than the FBz do
for a barrage template covering 2 or more units. For their points and depending
on the opposition , gargoyles are pretty good to (nothing like having 100
baskets for your opponent to deal with , each with 1/2 an egg :) ).
                                Hope thats understandable
Received on Thu Jan 01 1970 - 00:00:00 UTC

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