RE: [Epic] Ork Help - long

From: COOK MATTHEW JOHN <PBS4661_at_...>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:09:02 +0000

Thanks for your reply Chris.

> > Sorry, I don't play orks and I generally try not to talk about stuff
> > that I don't know much about.
> >
> >
> --------> Well then step aside T.M., because there's plenty of
> us that will!
> <moved questions to end of message>
> Orks:
> I was gonna do this before, but it got real long and I was sure
> someone else would do it. Shows me. Anyway, here 'tis:
I was a bit surprised by the lack of response considering the amount
the off topic ones started by others seemed to generate.
> I realise probably need shooty Boyz and more Wierdboyz but not how
> many I need.
> FORCE LIST GARGANTS
> Unpainted - 1 Mega Gargant
> -----> You already have several painted. Unless you plan to fight big
> big battles all the time, put him on the back burner until a hot idea
> really grabs you.
The reason I like to have 3 is so have selection of mountings so for
right flank attack use the one with cannon and mekboy arm on left
side etc.
Also want to assemble this last one a bit special, planing on putting
electric lighting inside him and do painting to very best of my
ability and kind of use as showcase model. Not sure what clan to use
probably Deatskull or Snakebite but my Deathskull Blue is a bit light
so not sure about that.
> - 1 Mekboy Gargant
> ----> He's not in the new rules, so if that's mainly what you're going
> to use, don't bother. If you will play some SM/TL still, then go ahead -
> these guys are great fun...
Depends on the new gaming partners I'm going to have to find really.
I like the model and may paint it up for that reason but as a low
priority.
> Partially Painted - Bad Moonz Mega Gargant (only Wierdboy Tower,
> Krooz
> Missiles left to paint)

Only Wierdboy left to want now.

> - Goff Mega Gargant
> Painted - Evil Sunz Mega Gargant
> ------> If you have the points, take one in every battle - they're good.

Hmm didn't realise this. In SM/TL died lots of times and without
gutbuster and becuase high point wern't worthwhile unless was large
battle. May bear this in mind.
> - 3 Evil Sunz Great Gargants
> (armed as per ones in Battle book supplement)
> -------> If you will play any SM/TL at all, always take a Gargant Big
> Mob and always take these guys - it's even more important if you will be
> facing other titans, especially an Imperator - the Gutbuster is a
> serious titan killer. For E40K, between all the Slashers and megas,
> they're good but you won't take 3 too often.
Kind of gathered this. Do any people use battlegroup ideas ie 3
titans for price of 2 in E40k as house rule?
For SM/TL as house rule decided that could have Slasher Big Mob for
1200 points which made it bit more worthwhile.
I did take the Great Big Mob most of the time for SM/TL allthough
didn't allways do to well. I found the more Gargants I took the more
likely I was to get to use them before they got killed by vortex
missiles or plasma annhilators, problem with this is sometimes left
me with not infantry.
> - 3 Deathskull Slasher Gargants
> (1 with Gutbuster, Ripper Fist, Slasha Attack Gun
> other 2 with Gutbuster, Death Kannon, Cluster Buster)
> - Goff Slasher Gargant
> (snapper, ripper fist, slasha attack gun)
> -------> These are good in low-points games in either edition as you
> still get the belly gun, but I tend towards the big guys first.
>
> ***Two big suggestions on superheavy things and titans in either
> edition: We would sometimes set aside a seperate points pool as "Titan
> Points" which was strictly for titans and superheavies, mainly because
> in 2nd ed you could see some strange results if one side had many titans
> and one side had none, especially if you used the titan objectives. May
> want to consider it, especially if your friends have numerous titans.
> Also, get a campaign going in some way so you can use the titan
> experience rules - it makes a big difference when one unit starts
> getting some kills and special abilities as to whether you take it or
> not. My Evil Sunz Slasha " 'Otfoot" with the flame job and the Nike
> Swoosh painted on his feet quickly became a runnin' bobbin' weavin' fool
> in one memorable campaign, and has appeared in every fight since he was
> painted (where I've played Orks, anyway) with out blowing up. It makes
> the game more fun - and ain't that the point?

We did use Titan Experience only problem was my Gargants died quicker
than my oponents Titans so I got the raw end of the deal. I always
seemed to be particularly unlucky at hitting with my ball rounds.
I like the idea of War Engine restrictions and will try using this.
Any good recomendations as to what level to use to make
interesting(probably in percentage terms)?
One idea I toyed with using Titan Experience was you where only
allowed a certain amount of Titans/Gargants. Once those had died you
had to take other things instead. Never played this enough to see
how would work out.
>
> BATTLEFORTRESSES
> Deathskull Gibletgrinda
> Evil Sunz Gibletgrinda
> Goff Skullhamma
>
> 2 New ones as yet unpainted (thinking 1 Bad Moonz 1 Snakebites)
>
> ------> E40K:One big detachment of these is pretty fast, fairly shooty,
> carries a seperate 20-stand detachment of boyz, and will get shot up
> less than a few individuals out there alone.
That what I was thinking but not sure if it worked in practice.

> SM/TL: Pick one clan and "Mechanize" it. Have enough transport
> for every ork in it, so they can get somewhere quick. The evil sunz are
> like this naturally, but consider the goffs...(My goffs have 1
> gibgrinda, 2 units of battlewagons(with the gib this makes all infantry
> portable), a dragsta (for the shield), and a unit of bonebreakas :4
> deathrollers -counting the gib- means they can plow through a thinly
> held line sometimes, getting to the soft chewy artillery center. Or
> penetrate to an objective more easily.

Yeah I did to this. My Goffs had enough Battlewagons to mount them up
in SM/TL (or at least 1 of the 2 clans I had painted and 8 extra boys
plus Ghaz's Retinue). Was toying with idea of making more mechanised
but then E40k came out and changed my priorities as well as having
less time.
>
> CLANS
>
> GENERIC
> 12 Wildboz
> 12 Madboyz
> --------> These guys don't exist in E40K anymore. In SM/TL, madboyz are
> great (free) - use the spare slots from a mega-gargant to fit 'em in.
> Never liked Wildboyz, I mixed 'em in on stands with regular orks as
> snakebites
I liked wildboyz as were cheap for good CAF. Usually used two support
cards worth with my Snakebites to Bolster them against marines.
Usually took mad boyz even though rarely did much other than provide
amusment factor.

> 4 Stormboyz + Stormboyz Kaptin (Black and Yellow Shoulderpads)
> 4 Stormboyz + Stormboyz Kaptin (Red Shoulderpads)
>
> ------> Stormboyz are handy in both versions. If you make up an assault
> specific unit, they're a good fit. Or if you want to be sneaky in E40K,
> put 'em in a shooty detachment, and use 'em as an active defense to
> counter-charge or throw up a quick wall of units.

I used to use them in Battlefortresses in SM/TL as seperate units for
going of and securing an objective at least against limited
opposition. Particularly usefull with a Gibletgrinda on an objective
in a wood!
The fact they are harder in CC in new version as well as jumpacks
should make them more usefull and would like some more.
>
> DEATHSKULLS
> 3 Braincrushers
> ------> These're just battlewagons now
Yeah I know its a shame I liked these guys. Had house rule could
shoot buildings as used to have same stats as quake cannon.

> BLOOD AXE
> 8 Rhinos
> 6 Landraiders
> ------> You lose these, officially. Could be battlewagons.
I know its a bummer, not got enough vehicles to mechanise this clan
anymore and looks wierd having them in detachments with other clans
especially cause of the animosity and image of 'treachorous hummie
lovin gits'.
> EVIL SUNZ
> 3 Spleenrippas
> 6 Battlewagons
> 3 Bowelburnas
> 3 Bonebreakers
> ------> All of these are battlewagons or bikes/buggies now.
Thought the Spleenripas might count as Mek vehicle in new (cant
rember where I heard that but somewhere).
> GOFFS
> Mag Uruk Ghazgkull Thraka
> -------> E40K: Who? : )
I know bummer, almost allways took him in SM/TL even tho may have
been considered little cheesy but normally needed all the help could
get.
> 1 Magna Kannon
> -----> I use this as flakwagon or a lifta droppa speedsta for E40K
Was thinking of using as flakwagon.
 
> Main Questions What do people thing should paint next?
> --------> Figure out one or two detachments then assemble/paint the figs
> you need. Or, look through your minis, some old battle reports,and get
> inspired to paint something.
> Do I need to buy any more minatures that are
> missing?
> -----><Cough> I think you have a pretty good start...
I was thinking of the new units not available in SM/TL particularly
Flak Wagons, Wierdboys (infantry) and Fighter Bommerz
> How can I organise best into detachements?
> -------> Figure out what mission you want a detachment to perform, then
> add the troops you need to do it.
> - You may want a sit-back-and-shoot detachment of pulsa's, big gunz, and
> shooty boyz, with maybe a few assault troops to guard them.
>
> - You might want a mobile assault group with battlewagons to transport
> the boyz, and plenty of bikes and buggies.
>
> - A slow, massive assault wave is very orky too - all foot boyz. It's
> slow, but it will draw some fire if it's big enough, and it's unlikely
> you will be able to mechanize _everyone_. Throw in some stompers and
> dreads too.
>
> - I like an intermediate speed unit of snakebites: boarboyz with
> squiggoths and maybe a few dreads and stompas.

Allways liked having Snakebite unit similar to KOS but with Boars
including a few Bonebreakers as well (some problems caused by terrain
here tho).

> - If you take all 5 battleforts as a unit, build a 20-stand detachment
> focussed on either sheer assault power (Nobz and skarboyz), or make it
> an easily-transported firebase: mostly shooty boyz, and big gunz with a
> few boyz or nobz stands for defense. Either way, you run right up to the
> badguys, dump the boyz, and hose the poop out of them...

Sounds cool was wondering what to unit best to transport with them.

> - Most of your battlewagons and bikes will probably go to Kult of Speed
> detachments. Try building one totally out of battlewagons. It won;t be
> as fast, but it will be tough, have ok firepower and a decent assault
> value. You might want to use similar minis, like all bonebreaka tanks,
> to make it stand out. Also, this unit could potentially transport
> another detatachment like the battleforts above.
 
> - You want one very speedy unit, maybe all bikes, to get something on
> the table in those "escalating engagement" scenarios.
Had problem getting bike minis SM/TL, allways had loads of buggies
but hardly any bikes.
 
> As all the current models are based on old
> stand should any new ones I paint go on
> those as well to keep continuity or should
> I use new ones?
>
> ------> This one really depends on which one you'll be playing.
> The new bases really don't work well under the old game, so if that's
> what you're playing, I wouldn't do it.
Dunno which I will be playing most till played more E40k and found
which I prefer. Probably a bit of both.

> If you'll mainly be playing the
> new one, why bother using old bases? If it's a mix, it looks like you
> have plenty of things to play the old game with so try making some new
> ones just for the new game. You'll probably want to keep some
> detachments around permanently for E40K , so why not use the new bases
> for them.
The infantry wiedboyz where the main once I was wondering about, as
well as all the warboss miniture I'll need. I just thought would look
odd maybe with mix and to much hassle, time and money rebasing all
the old ones.

> The only other thing I'll add is I try to make a given
> detachment all one clan: It just feels better to me, and I think it
> helps them better fit the mission and image I have in my head when I
> build them.
Yeah I was disapointed when I saw E40k as I would have wanted to do
this but the minatures I have painted aren't in the correct clans to
go in same detachment. Will try to do this as much as possible tho,
or if not keep down to only 2 different clans.
> My Bad moonz tend to have more shooty boyz and big guns,
Yeh this fits in with old stereotype and was what I was planing on
doing. Will use most of shooty boyz minatures as Bad Moonz I think
if not all.
> My Goffs tend to be the assault forces,
Yeah I guessed this, Skarboyz are only from Goff clan I thought
anyway. How d'ya differentiate your skarboyz and do you use them
much?
> my evil sunz turn up as either one
> but they're always mechanized. I built a hard evil sunz unit after TL
> with extra nobz and 2 units of bonebreakas for getting in and tearing
> things up and I like this setup in E40K also.The skulls tend to have
> lotsa shooty boyz too. My snakebites are a little different - In SM/TL
> I thought that stompas went well with the usual squiggoths and squig
> katapults, so I painted up some snakebite stompas. I have continued
> this so my newer E40K snakebites use the stompas and squiggoths too,
> along with boarboyz and now some dreads. If they have to walk, they
> might as well bring the hard stuff. Any assault units can have
> weirdboyz added as neccessary - get lots, and they don't all have to be
> battlewagons either.
I kinda saw Stompers more as Bad Moonz expensive vehicles with the
nice big gun. Also as my BM's normally wern't mechanised meant that
the 10cm move wasn't as much of a problem(changed to 15 E40k I
think).

> You have plenty of troop types and vehicles to make this
> work. Try it.
>
> Final Note: The Warlord. I find the Warlord in a gargant of
> some type works well AS LONG AS YOU TAKE MORE THAN ONE GARGANT. If you
> only take one, _and_ it's your leader, you're just making it an even
> juicier target for every deathray on the board. He need bodyguards.
> Taking him as a vehicle or foot unit can get him killed quick by AT
> shots or deathrays as they can pick him out of the crowd, so you might
> as well put him behind some power fields. Kinda depends on who & how you
> play...
>
> Hope this is more what you were looking for
>
> Chris Miller
Sounds cool yeh thanks. Just got to get the time to try them all out
now.

     ************************
         *** M J COOK ***
     ************************
AKA: Ghaz,Ghazgkull,Mat,Sparrow,Cookie,Walter Tatum,
     Alberto Giovanni,Damien Black,Joshua,Dct Strank
     Peter Jones & some I can't remember!
Received on Tue Feb 24 1998 - 18:09:02 UTC