At 05:24 PM 4/1/97 +0200, you wrote:
>even Guardians are useful
>for protecting your rear units from Thawks, biospores and the like.
Don't pretend. Guardians are worthless. They cost 25 points/stand, which
is the same as Dire Avengers. They take slightly longer to break, and give
up more VPs (6 vs 4 if bought as individual detachments, and 5 vs 4 if
bought as a host). Give me 16 DA stands and a Prism cannon vs 18 guardian
stands any day.
>4- Eldar Titans are useless. Don't bother taking any in your army. Even
>with two Pulsar Cannons, the only hope you could have is gaining initiative
>and fire it once. 10 secons later, it will be reduced to ashes by barrage
>templates.
What do you never play Orks or Chaos? I'm the first person to talk about
how much Eldar titans suck against IG and Squats, but they work fine against
Orks and Chaos. Warlock titans can be nice since they can use a psy-lance
vs. chaos and their mind shout power vs. Orks.
>Exception: Revenants are just fantastic units! They can hide
>behind buildings and their Pulsars are very powerful. I've always 2 or 4 of
>them (depending on the points of the game) in my army.
While I think they are useful, they are also pretty easy to take down. Any
of the barrages you mentioned will eat them even quicker, and even two bikes
at +3 caf have a shot at winning in cc, three is virtually a guarantee.
>5- Carefully plan your shooting phase: unless very special circumstances,
>always fire your Doomweavers first (no LOS required if you've flyers), then
>your "direct fire" troops and shoot your pop-up units last... Your opponent
>will then have few units to fire back at your popping-up vehicles.
Always fire doomweavers first? Why? Fire them when it is most
advantageous. Most of the time the enemy does not have direct line of sight
to your doomweavers, so they can safely delay. On the other hand your dark
reapers (for example) need line of sight, so if you let the other guy shoot
at them before you get to fire them, then you have lost firepower. Maybe
you are assuming that doomweavers can force his units to delay some of their
first fire, but that is far from being a certainty, especially considering
the automatic scatter.
<snip> vs. squats . . .
>Hmmm... Of course, NEVER take Titans but Revenants in your army (see
>above), but definitely take Tempests! Really, what do you think about 12
>long-range pop-up attacks with a -3 Save Mod and 1+ Saves for 900 pts?
Against squats they are so much toast. He will have a colossus with a
pop-up skimmer, or overlords, so no hiding and waiting until he is out of
first fire (like that would happen with a squat player anyway). Next he
takes some of that 9 barrage point, -3 armor save artillery and pegs as many
tempests as he wishes. I'd be willing to bet that the rockets from a
Colossus would be able to break a detachment single-handedly in a lot of cases.
> Let's go back to the Squats: I agree with the Eldritch Storm
>tactics, even if it means very often that you would dangerously expose your
>Warlocks, something I hate to do: better keep them for the end of the game.
Warlocks have to be exposed. If you dont' use them, then why buy them?
>Concerning the Jet-Bikes, you should be
>very lucky to find an opponent deploying his artillery within 70 cm of
>them, unless:
It's impossible under normal game circumstances.
>And of course, your Jet-Bikes are dead if they don't hit something
>immediately.
How is that? They will take a serious pounding if anyone can see them, but
most folks on this list have some sort of house rule that restricts pop-up
vision or adds shadows behind terrain, so they can often be hidden. Even if
they can't be hidden from indirect barrages, they can be hidden from direct
fire.
> So, I prefer to destroy the Squat artillery and/or reduce its
>effectiveness by a combination of the following tactics:
>
>1- Heavy Doomweavers "bombing" ("Webbing"?). Remember that many Squat
>weapons can't fire if they move: even if they escape the Webs, they will do
>nothing for the turn.
Just the artillery. This will work temporarily in an artillery duel, but he
will get to fire some units, and he will attempt to kill those of yours that
have not fired yet. There's also the fact that Goliaths are fairly small in
ground coverage, so even a small drift can miss them completely.
>2- Nightwings deep infiltration (very risky, but juicy if it works).
It's not gonna work. Half of a Squat army is on permanent ff and a good
portion of that has extended firing arcs. Do you really think he'll just
let you fly into his deployment zone and hang out?
>3- Sacrifice of cheap troops (like Spirit host, once again) in order to
>attract enemy fire while you're concentrating on useful stuff (killing
>Overlords, advancing within range with 75 cm weapons, taking some
>objectives).
Why will he fire at the spirit host instead of your "useful stuff"? Squats
have enough range to reach out and touch the units that you are supposedly
screening. Your opponent would be stupid to shoot up the wraithguard for no
possible VPs, when he can just as easily hit the falcons (or, God forbid,
Tempests) 20 cm behind them.
>Just as an example, the last time I played (10 days ago), it was a 10.000
>pts game against a Squat army. I won 76/43 in two turns. The Squats fielded
>2 Colossus, 1 Cyclop, 4 Overlords, 4 Goliaths, 2 complete Land Trains, 2
>Artillery companies, 2 Bikers Guilds, 12 Gyrocopters, and so on. I had 9
>Tempests, 10 Doomweavers, 4 Firestorms, 6 Nightwings, 4 Revenants + a
>balanced mix of the other Eldar units. At the end of the game, my opponents
>still had his 2 Colossus and his Cyclop (I didn't even tried to fire at
>them), but nothing else among his "heavies". Great job by the Doomweavers,
>I confess...
What a freaky force. Your opponent chose particularly poorly considering he
was fighting eldar. No anti-aricraft. The land trains are both doomweaver
fodder waiting to happen. By the time you've fired two detachments at them
they are hoplessly scattered. So that's 1400 points or so that fell to 300?
And what in the world is he doing taking a Cyclops vs. Eldar? No void
shield there! That's another 500 useless points. I bet I could beat anyone
if I started out the first turn with close to a 20% advantage in points.
Why not just go beat up a cripple?
>Once again, I don't understand why you don't have large numbers of shots.
>Once again, Tempests, Doomweavers and Firestorms are the key. Once again,
>masses of slowly advancing infantry are just likely to be shot before
>becoming dangerous.
Once again, 900 points in tempests translates to 6 hits on average. 900
points in Firestorms translates to 6 hits on average (or if they hit on a 3,
instead of a 4 as I remember, then it's 8 hits). So with 1800 points you
are killing 12 models per turn IF you can find that many in the open AND
they don't have armor saves. It takes 17 stands to break an IG tactical
company. IF you roll well, we'll say you break a single IG tac company at
600 pts . . . barely. Also, there is the ever present artillery company
with 150cm range. That means he can start 20 cm back from the from edge of
the deployment zone and your tempests and firestorms are grist for the
Basalisks (-2 saves, 2 templates/detachment) and Bombards (-3 saves). Your
doomweavers may kill a few and delay a few, but they will still eat you up.
>I agree, but here, I would say: sit back and destroy them. They are so slow
>and so short-ranged.
You have obviously never played a chaos marine player. They are very fast
and shooty. Or a fast CC army for that matter (Marine bikes, slaanesh
beastrider, discriders, fleshounds, juggers, etc).
>The best Chaos units are: Khorne Cannons
>(don't take titans even against chaos because of them),
Cannons of Khorne are amusing, but not terribly effective. Random BPs,
auto-scatter, and occasional explosions.
>Silver Towers,
Um, NO. I can hear the rest of the chaos players out there circling like
sharks if you even TRY to defend the silver towers.
>Lord of Battles and Magnus.
LoB maybe. Magnus is good, but one shot sucks. Besides, he's easy to hide
from, and if you expose him so that he has a good field of fire, then he
becomes a siphon for your chaos cards.
> (but, once again, it depends on the
>width of the table). One last thing: don't allow house rules to denaturate
>the game.
Hello? You talk about changing the width of the table (a MAJOR change in
most peoples' opinions) and then in the next sentence talk about not
unbalancing the game with house rules. Widening the table drastically helps
the shooty armies (and vice versa). You also talked about a 10,000 pt
battle whent he game was designed for 3-6,000 pts., and 10 detachments of
Doomweavers is a little extreme even at 10k.
>Renaud
This is getting dangerously close to me flaming you, but you obviously don't
play a lot, or dont' play with very skilled players.
Well, Renaud, I think I have done my best to offend you :). I'll take up
the Tempest discussion on another thread.
Temp (Why, yes. It IS short for Tempest. Why do you ask?)
Received on Tue Apr 01 1997 - 19:43:50 UTC
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0
: Tue Oct 22 2019 - 13:09:16 UTC