Re: [Epic][E40K] Scale and primitive weapons

From: E. Sund <esund_at_...>
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 13:03:35 -0700 (PDT)

On Sat, 10 May 1997, Antony Van Der Linden wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I was reading the thread about scale and bows and so on.....
>
> In about 6 years of wargaming I've tried more than a few times to figure out
> ground and time scales in a few different games and have come to a few
> conclusions. These are just my opinions but I think there is a bit of
> truth here.
>
> a) Vertical scale and ground scale are very often different. So, in epic
> say, the 6mm figures might represent 2m tall superhumans, but on the
> ground 6mm might be more or less than that (my vote is that it is more
> than that).
>
> b) Many games (almost all historical) are designed from the top-down - ie
> decide how a bunch of weapons and troops would behave in real life (this
> is already known with histoorical rules) and then scale them down. It is
> especially difficult to do this with weapons that are specifically sci-fi
> or fantasy based. I mean while we do have guns we don't have bolters or
> lasguns as such and their 'real world' behaviour is pretty much guesswork.
>
> c) Some games, especially fantasy and sci-fi, start with a bunch of
> premises like " we have these troops and these weapons and this
> mythos/backgound and this size table ", and then try to reconcile all
> these things to make an entertaining game. I think that designers of this
> style of game also try to reconcile their rules with the real world to a
> certain extent too, although things like magic or psychic powers are an
> obvious 'flavour' addition.
>
> As far as weapons in WH40K and Epic/E40K go,I think there are a
> couple of things to consider.
>
> The world(s) of our games are not sci-fi in the Star Trek sense
> but is really 'backward' in many respects. If you've read much of the
> original fluff there was a period of history (in the future) when the warp
> flared up and isolated many parts of the galaxy. It was like a Dark Ages
> of the future. WH40K and Epic are set post Dark Ages and everyone is just
> about starting over again but with scraps of this incredible futuristic
> tech. ( comments please if you see things differently )
> As such, I get the feeling that even their best/most reliable
> equipment is much crappier than anything we have today, but uses some
> really snazzy tech that we don't have in the here and now. So ranges are
> probably much reduced in comparison to modern weapons.
> There is also the point that there is no use having weapons with
> ranges so large that they extend off the table, not to mention that they
> would be incredibly unfair (ahh, Squat megacannon ;) ).
>
> With respect to bows and other primitive weapons in a futuristic
> sci-fi setting. I think it would be really careless to take weapons from
> WFB and just cut and paste them into 40K or epic without some thought of
> comparing them to existing weapons in that game and modifying them
> accordingly. In short, you can't invent or convert weapon rules in
> isolation, they _have_ to be created with everything else in mind.
> Don't get me wrong though I reckon that the inclusion of primitive
> peoples in a game would be a great idea. But their weapons would have to
> be pretty crap and cheap, but you should have hordes of 'em and maybe give
> them a home ground advantage of some sort. It's just that I've seen to
> many sets of homemade rules that are just a hodgepodge of other rules
> which should never have been put together.
>
>
> Anyway, thanks for reading this little rant, I've lurked to long
> this time And as always please feel free to agree, disagree, comment etc.
> (ha, like you all needed to be invited, eh?)
>
>
Actually those all sound like pretty good explanations to me. It's also
possible that the shorter effective ranges represent the fact that a lot
of these models are wearing armor/armour. Perhaps you have to get in
close to penetrate the heavy armour with energy weapons. And bolts are
like little rockets, which gives ;em good firepower but they don't go all
that far. Finally, consider that bolters have short barrels. Sure, it
won't really work out even after all these excuses. But it comes close
enough. After all, it's a game.



 
> Thanks,
> Tony.
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> |
> Tony VanDerLinden - | Department of Computer Science
> E-mail: | James Cook University of North Queensland
> Antony.VanDerLinden_at_... | Australia
> ________________________________|____________________________________________
>
>
>
Received on Sat May 10 1997 - 20:03:35 UTC