Re: [NetEpic ML] Epic 40K revision

From: Peter Ramos <primarch_at_...>
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:01:47 -0400

Hi!

> -->Things are, in part, not fully directed at Jervis, but he is the
> target of opportunity, being the point man for several other people who
> are involved behind the scenes. Jervis may well like is game, as he
> should, as it is his creation after all. the issue becomes when he
> starts over glorifying it, and over stating much of the criticism of it.
> Perhaps it's just because I'm a politics veteran, and am far too used to
> reading between the lines and reading teh nuances in word choice and
> order of thought. Maybe he is being as open and honest as some people
> believe. I could be wrong, but I won't hedge my bets on it just yet.
> And the cries for more detail have been going on since the day E40K was
> released. I was among them, and still am.

I hear that. It's "those several people" behind him I also wonder about. If at any point during this new rules thing the name Gavin Thorpe comes up, I for one will call it quits.

> -->this does go back along way. It starts about the time SM/TL was
> pulled from the marketing lines, with no ample explanation as to why.
> Anyone know why it was pulled?

I can asnwer this one, because it was talked about along retailer lines back then when I still had contacts. Back then epic accounted for roughly 10% of total GW sales with 40K and fantasy being the big boys on the block. The move from a retailing persepctive was designed to shoot for a goal of 15-20%. In order to give the new game its best chance as well as to boost sales, all epic was pulled from the shelves PRIOR to the games release and stock in gaming stores would be "bought back" for a pittance (and beleive it it was a pittance).

Of course you can, as well as I point out the folly of such a marketing plow, but that was their plan. You should see how many store owners were totally pist off after it became apparent that epic flopped for all the old epic they sold back for nothing ( most was sold back to GW for GW credit for more games like...Gorka morka...LOL!). Those few store owners I know that held on to their old epic made a KILLING when they instantly became collectors items selling for way above their original sticker price. But it wasn't many that had that much foresight.

The rest is history.

  I don't. Jervis (and others) have
> referred to those who don't "appreciate the legant simpleness of E40K" in
> less than complimentary terms. Nothing so direct, but by simply
> referring to E40K as a "thinking man's game" he's in effect, insulting
> the intelligence of anyone who didn't like it to begin with. Also, there
> have been off hand comments about how it was those who didn't like E40K
> (yet continued to buy the minis) who killed E40K as a "main line" game.
> go figure. we bought the minis, spents $100's on them, yet we're the bad
> guys. I don't doubt Jervis' desire to keep Epic alive. He's been in on
> the ground floor of Epic since near it's very begining, if not before.
> He does genuinely love the game, but is far too enamoured of his own
> rules. This new edition has the potential to be the "perfect blend" of
> E40K and the older editions, but only if done right, and done with more
> than just the Studio guys hammering it out. Some of those at Fanatic are
> gamers. Especially the "old guard" as embodied by Rick Priestly and
> Nigel Stilman. Those two are still among the best GW has, and Warmaster
> is certainly a reflection of their capabilities.

Pretty much. They'll never say "hey, you are all a bunch of dirtbags for not liking our new epic game" but the stuff Josh mentioned is the same thing in diplomatic speech.

> -->Angst depends on the person. Squat players have a BIG beef with GW
> and jervis. Their whole race was just deleted, and for no good reason.
> Chaos players had more than half their army lists disappear between
> editions. IG Beastmen? SM Leviathans? Gene Stealer cults? Chaos
> Cults? All disappeared in the new edition. Mostly, it depends on how
> long you've been playing Epic games. Those who've been around a while
> have a whole slew of complaints over the years, while those who only came
> to Epic with E40K have far fewer, if any. Much of the same complaints I
> have about the way Epic went, and is going, are why I stopped playing 40K
> entirely a few years ago. But play which ever you prefer. E40K is for
> some people, and NetEpic is for others.

Got that right. To date there is NO reasonable answer for deleting squats and other such things. Of course defender will tell you "there are too rules for squats they are in magazine "X"". For which I respond "and where can I buy squat sprues for my infantry" Hmmm...maybe its not supported after all.....

Peter
Received on Tue Feb 12 2002 - 01:01:47 UTC