Re: [NetEpic ML] net epic suppression

From: Albert Farr� Benet <cibernyam_at_...>
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:26:26 +0100

I'm afraid my response was a bit rude in manner, but it was 2 in the morning and I was falling sleep.
My intention was more on constructive criticism rather than beating down.

I agree with you, this supression rules are difficult to balance between realistic/playable so to follow the line of existing rules in NetEpic I would favour playavbilty vs realism. The biggest problem with this rules, as pointed by Jyrki before comes with ork mobs and solitaire models. How can we balance this?

Albert

P.S. I also think supression counters should be automatically driven off at the end of turn. If not IG and orks have no future.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Peter Ramos
  To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 4:12 PM
  Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] net epic suppression


  Hi!
    The table seems quite good but some points:

    - Fixed armour saves: Who cares a volcano cannon or a bolter if your save isn't affected? Should they be inmune?

    Almost always units with fixed Armour saves are also elite units so I would use the suggested ruled that the units/fixed Armour units should ignore the first suppression.

    - Regenrating units / Wounds / Void Shields/ No morale: OK three volcanoes hit your Reaver titan which is at full shield charge (4 VS), crew should be able to ignore this shield loss to allow movement & shooting (Well, that's why they have shields). Indeed, Titans and Praetorians are supposed to be launched in the hardest part of the battlefield and their crews trained to fight under heavy fire. I would make them completely inmune to supression. Same for Tyranid wounds & morale: they are painless and fearless, no matter how heavy are the penalties, when one critter dies, another one takes its place. Robotic machinery and similar units with no morale should fall also under this category.

    As a mentioned in the previous post, titans, praetorians and super heavy vehicles should be means to suppression. I guess one should add to the list of units immune to suppression creatures with regeneration and/or multiple wounds.

    I made the rules very simple without taking into consideration the psychologist of the different armies. Of course for certain armies like chaos and tyranids should have different rules. I think the easiest thing to do would be to make tyranids and demons immune to suppression.

    - Elite fighters should be inmune to supression. If thirthy (only thirty!!) marines are able to attack a position in the heart of the enemy lines, the least they can expect is a heavy fire curtain. Same goes for HQ units and characters unless specified (Astropath, err, hey guys don't look me this way...it's just a joke, er NOOooo...)

    As suggested before the elite units would ignore the first counter suppression.

    - Barrage is far less painful for supression than it should be. This should be taken into account, at less for infantry. How about: "when half of an infantry unit is under barrage markers it gets one additional supression counter (SupC) and another one when it's completely covered by barrage". Note that this means that if you want to add extra counters you have to add extra barrages over previous ones (could it be done, only for this purpose?)

    I did not address barrages but, as you point out, artillery weapons to inflict more suppression beyond what this simple firepower would suggest. Using a modified rule from heresy I would suggest that weapons that use the barrage template cause suppression depending on how many barrage points are involved in the attack. For example:

    1 -- 3 barrage points cause one suppression marker
    4 -- 6 barrage points cause two suppression markers
    7+ barrage points cause three suppression markers

    Additional barrage attacks against the unit that is already suppressed ONLY cause suppression if the additional attacks barrage points is greater than the first attacks barrage points.

    - Weapons with -3 or better saving throw are mostly tankbusters and not antipersonel, they should be treated in a different way. That brings out the use of two different kinds of armour ( none (infantry) or light vehicles / heavy armour). I think the easiest way to do this is to categorize weapons under supression capable or not in the army lists though it's a heavy job (and a lot of discussion)

    I tried to make the rules very simple. Obviously one could elaborate a lot if one wanted to produce realistic results, but that would make the suppression rules for net epic too cumbersome.

    - What happens to units under dragster shields?

    Any power were unit that has a shield or can deflect incoming shots also cancels the effects of suppression.

    -Under this rules, Imperial SH are mostly useless: A detachment of Land Raiders supresses completely a SH every turn for the rest of the game (they have really bad morale to recover, but still have a 1+ save).

    Super heavy to would be immune to suppression.

    - I also think that units under cover should be able to fire normally.

    And in covered is either. I would say that units and cover require double the amounts of the attack dies to produce suppression.

    - Another question: Could you stack attacks from different units to get suppresion? For exemple I fire one detachment of SM tacticals (6 dice) against a IG tactical platoon (10 stands). I don't get supression, OK. Now I fire another SM tactical detachent (6 dice more). Should I get supression? I suppose so

    Realistically you are correct, but to fit this into a game mechanic without bookkeeping would be difficult. Any ideas?

    These were some, but not all, of the problems of this supression rule proposal in my opinion.

    LOL. Now you know why there aren't any suppression rules a net epic. On one hand you can make things simple and unfortunately it may not be as realistic as you like. On the other hand make it too complex and who'd want to use it?


    Peter

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Received on Thu Feb 28 2002 - 22:26:26 UTC