[NetEpic ML] Re: heresy bug hunting

From: Peter Ramos <pramos2_at_...>
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:10:13 -0600


> Hi everybody. This mail is primarily adressed to Peter as it deals with
> Heresy.
> Great stuff and you have even found a few of the bugs that I had found.
> However, the following points concern me:
> (Please remember to update the rules as nescesary)
> Shouldn't eldar exarches be heroes? If they do not fit the concept of
> a hero, then who does?
> Also, if they are not heroes then their orbital attack thing is rather
> useless.

hehe, true, remember my memory is a fragile thing. I'll add it to their

> You don't mention how victory poitns are calculated? (This is odd as the
> formula for calculating break points are given) How is it done?

The main reason is that ALL this information will be on the army cards.
Until those come out the formula is something simple. For every 10 points or
fraction thereof is equal to 1 victory points. 10 points = 1VP.

> Moving the flyer and artillery rules to AFTER the main combat rules is
> These things can seem confusing to newbies.

The change came due to what we are discussing for netepic, we want our minis
on the table, why have a separate phase if we can have them all in the same
place like ground troops? I think this will work better.

> Heroes can command other units. What is their leadership, command radius
> etc.??? (I have assumed no leadership bonus, and the hero has to be within
> coherency distance) Can heroes rally units?

Good pickup! Leader ship of 7, therefore radius of 35cm, and yes they may
rally. I will add this.

> I find it very strange that marine devastators are reduced in assault
> strength, when imperial guard heavies or eldar seekers aren't.

This is play balance if I reduce heavy IG and guardians they'd have a
assault value of 2 far too low.

> May units on advance orders fire if they have fought in assault comba this
> turn?? I would suggest that this is only possible if the unit did not
> retreat or lose morale during the combat.

Good point, I will add as you suggest, simple and to the point.

> Some kind of advance move after winning assault combat would be nice!

Not necessary, remeber assault is continuos in Heresy until one side
retreats or is eliminated, this extra move is not needed.

> If only a single model are left from an artillery detachment then i
> it automatically fires an open sheaf barrage? Please clarify this!

<grin> hehe while this is self-evident I agree some rules lawyer might jump
on it. Will clarify.

> When firing smoke / blind rounds it seems odd that you get the same effect
> regardless of the number of models firing or artillery pieces remaining in
> the unit. What about 1 smoke template per gun. if firing blind this will
> up the firepower of 3 guns.

Hmm.. not bad I like it will do, in case of blind it only can be fired at
full battery strength.

> Space marine whirlwinds are apparently not stubborn. I presume this is a
> typo?

Typo, will add.

> What are the power ratings of the eldar psykers?

Reread the psyker rules. I droped the power stat, now its all mastery level
that matters.

> What are the rules for the eldar Local Air Defense skill possessed by dark
> reapers??

Curse my rapid copy paste, It seems I deleted it. will add to Eldar army

> Psi-weapons (marine list) have a penetration of 2 / 3. Why is this?
> (Presumable 2 versus regular targets and 3 versus psykers / daemons)

Thats exactly it, will clarify.

> Commissars have assault pistols but only laspistols are listed in the
> list??

Will change.

> Sentinels in the IG list are listed as walkers and cavalry????

hehe,, will change.

> Heavy flamers have a penetration of 2 / 18????? I refuse to believe that
> get 18 penetration dice against an infantry target. I suppose you mean 2 /
> 1?
hahah, now thats a great typo, yes its 2/1, 2 versus infantry one versus

> The eldar psykers have laspistols, but the weapon chart mentions shuriken
> pistols. Just a typo?

Theres no difference between the two, but its a typo, see a trend?

> Is it intentional that the assault values of greater daemons are hardly
> better than an assault marine stand??

Yes, remeber greater demons have DR rating making them already extremely
powerful in combat, plus demons like the bloodthirster and Angron have
double their assault value.(assault value of 20). Other demons although
powerful are not assault oriented and have greater powers elsewhere.

> Wouldn't super heavy tanks be better off with a DR of 3?? 2 hits can
> be scored by a single land raider.

Pondered on this for bit, not sure lets playtest first, but I'm inclined to
agree with you.
> Hunter missiles are presumably 1-shot but the rules doesn't actually state
> so!

Yes one shot, will clarify.

> The example given in the description of the tank killer ability is pretty
> strange. Please read through it and correct it!

Will do.

> Angron has "Chaos" listed as a unit skill. This is chaos armour, right?
> how come his DR is the same as the other primarchs? The DR's should
> generally be 1 higher though

Thats a typo, he doesn't have chaos armor, DR 3.

> Ork armies should not be able to buy a waargh bigboss in small battles,
> bringing an army with no line units at all. Make restrictions like those
> the imperial lists.

The Imperial lists already have a built in restriction, but I'll recheck (I
sometimes think I wrote things I didn't). Will do same for the Orks.

> DROP DETACHMENT CARDS! Just list the break points and victory point values
> next to the point cost in the army list. This is MUCH more convenient and
> saves people from printing so much. And people will be referring to the
> lists for unit stats anyway.

<sigh> but they are so kewl! Alas I hear the truth in your words.

> The lord of change apparently posses a bolt of change. This has no rules
> however, is this a lost weapon, or should it read: Firestorm of Tzeentch?

Correct, I'll change.

> Giving traitor marines bolters are fine, but make a kind of heavy troops
> (Assault penalty but heavy weapons (Havocs). Alternatively make the
> shots all-purpose (Representing plasmas and shortranged chaos weapons)

<grin> soul of a traitor huh, alright I can't deny you that joy.

> I suppose that you always use a units unmodified assault value for its
> "kill-number" in assault combat. Clarify this in the rules.

Will do.

> Inspiring presence is a bit wild IMHO. Add +2 or 50% to assault rather
> doubling. Add +1 to morale as well or something.

I agree always thought it may be too much.

> The infiltrate and jump packs skills are placed oddly in the alphabetical
> skill list

Forgetting my ABC's, crap I'm getting old. Will change.

> Reducing anti-infantry suppression versus armour to one quarter is bad!
> not give the poor grunts a chance and keep it at 50%?

Re-read the amount of units in a typical armored detachament versus the
amount of infantry in a typical detachment at 50% infantry will ALWAYS
supress the armored unit since there 50% is more than the 3 vehicles in a

> I still aren't too keen on stealth. A whole unit losing their shots? And
> marines are as likely to lose 'em as gretchin?
> But with the importance of commanders it might be okay. However, what
> happens if a unit only fires part of its shots at a unit with stealth? I
> presume that only the units firing on stealthed troops lose their shots if
> the check is failed.

Correct, will clarify, it has to be stringent otherwise its a free for all
shooting at commanders.

> Actually I would rather have stealth work as a to-hit modifier, perhaps
> equal to twice the models leadership bonus. Eldar units with the stealth
> wargear card would get a -2 modifier. But it is your choice really
> The ork warband boss and warclan chief detachments actually haven't got
> enough battlewagons to transport them.

Will correct.

> The ork kustom weapon table needs to be revised as it is still the
> table you suggested where each roll had a chance of producing strange
> results.

Will do.

> The lethality thing is great!! Excellent idea, it really allows people to
> suit the game length to their taste

Got the idea from Ken.

> Can line units be picked instead of support / special units? (A marine
> commander getting 3 grunt units instead of 2 line and 1 other)

Yes, these are the maximum of type restrictions will clarify.

> Can chaos commanders pick troops from their own kind in place of other
> (A traitor champion picking 4 traitor units instead of 3 traitor and 1
> other)???

Of course see above.

> If I read the rules for greater daemons right, I can pick a bloodthirster,
> attach 4 daemon and 4 cultist units to him and claim this to be a traitor
> force. Thereby allowing me to avoid the limitation of having to pick 50%
> my force from one list???

No, just because its attached to a demon it doesn't lose its affiliation, if
they are listed as traitor they remain so and apply to the restriction.
greater demons have flexibility to take what they please but it doesnt
superceed the restrictions.
> Reduce the twin lascannon to firepower 1. Otherwise having a linked
> lascannon gives you 2 shots AND AP 2...

Old typo, I think in other places its 1 firepower 2 penetration.
> Allow fatiqued units to engage in assault combat by passing a morale test.
> Otherwise assaults units are VERY easy to render useless. Frenzied or
> Rampaging units should be able to assaulting with no test.

Sounds cool will do.

> The bulldozer blade wargear card (The cards are brilliant by the way) adds
> to armour right? The card doesnt specifically state so.

Armor, yes, will correct.

> Cards that boost movement should be written as +x / +x / +x (Bonus to
> advance / bonus to assault / bonus to strategic move)

Will do.
> The wargear file contains the tyranid stuff twice...as if all the evil bug
> things weren't bad enough already. :-)

Ah, crap I thought I had deleted that!

> The Slann apparantly have command distances of twice their
> suck!! I am sure you meant them to have distances of twice the normal for
> their leadership?? :-)

hehe, yes will change.

> The titan rules mention that armour piercing weapons get a bonus to
> catastrophic damage rolls. I dont see any actual bonus in the rules.
> the massive amount of damage these weapons cause should be more than
> anyway.

They do, it is the same as their armor pericing bonus it is stated in the

> Titan shields have pretty low armour values or??

Correct, I kept them low for ballance if too high then its too difficult to
bring down they are a protection not an invincible one.
> There are no detail for how to add titans to an army. Is this something
> have not yet done or was it left out as a mistake?

Have not decided on yet. Suggestions? I thought perhaps one per highest
level of command.

Thanks a bunch for the suggestions and clarifications.

Received on Fri Jan 07 2000 - 01:10:13 UTC

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