This discussion is getting very interesting. Kelvin, you raised
excellent points, as well as Peter asking to "keep them different".
Now, on the topic itself...
As I wrote, I found Tau way too hard to assault in HtH (I was playing
them!) With a rerolled 4+ against incoming attackers, they wiped out
everything that was thrown to them. Everything. Only tanks would have
survived, but since those tanks were unable to enter the buildings I
had placed my Tau into, the fire warriors were simply impregnable.
As for several squads of Crisis Suits that just used their superior
mobility to enter HtH and crush everything (not too hard with their
current CAF).
A 4+ to hit, let alone the reroll thing, means half the attackers
will be wiped out. Any unit in a building can hardly be assaulted by
more than 2 attackers; this leaves generally Fire warriors with 1
opponent each on average after their defensive fire. With the +2 CAF
bonus associated with the building, they are a match in CC for most
opponents, including Space Marines.
I proposed a REROLLED 5+ to hit except on assault. Kelvin, you
discarded my idea but did you really consider the reroll?
This is striclty equivalent to a 3+ to hit - and will outmatch any
infantry in the game, hands down. Better than a 4+. The point is not
to give this reroll when Tau stands are locked in HtH, so they can't
wipe out assaulters as easily. To write down this rule in a simple
way:
"Tau infantry can reroll failed to-hit rolls, except when pinned in
close-combat."
I am running out of ideas on how to address this problem, so don't
hesitate to make your own proposals. But I sincerely think that Tau
should suffer a lot when engaged in assault. A 4+ simply means "half
your stands will die". CAF-1 is hardly an impediment when so little
attackers survive.
Further downgrading the CAF is an interesting idea. I agree that
Crisis Suits are a bit above the top regarding that matter (they are
as good as Terminators!!). Yet, Fire Warriors with CAF -2... Not
sure. Why not.
Now, I'm not asking Tau to be neutered (Poor Greater Good!! :o) ) . I
think that if everything is somehow downgraded, point values or
number of stands in a unit should be addressed as well.
Stephane
--- In netepic_at_yahoogroups.com, Peter Ramos <primarch@...> wrote:
> Kelvin Henderson wrote:
>
> > At 12:16 AM 12/04/2006, you wrote:
> >
> >> Hum, Kelvin, it seems definitely that the discussion did not
happen!
> >
> >
> > Really? I remember the discussion quite well. Or maybe I'm
getting
> > old and forgetful? ;-)
> >
> >> I made several proposal; the one I found best was:
> >> 1. to give Tau fire warriors a 5+ to hit instead of 4+.
> >> 2. the reroll for Tau infantry would have been for first fire
orders
> >> and only when not base to base with an enemy unit.
> >>
> >> Slightly downgrading them (a rerolled 5+ is worth a 3+ anyway,
far
> >> better than any basic infantry in the game) and keeping intact
their
> >> vulnerability in HtH.
> >
> >
> > I'm not a big fan of downgrading them to a 5+ to hit as they are
the
> > shootiest of the infantry in 40K. A squad of 10 Fire Warriors
with
> > Pulse Rifles will easily out-shoot 10 Marines with Bolters. I
think
> > they should remain as a 4+ to hit. The re-roll misses on
assaults was
> > a bit much I will agree which is why I think the re-roll 1s on
the
> > assault would be better. It would equate to a roughly 3+ chance
to
> > hit on the assault.
> >
> > As an aside I have been looking at the CAF values for the Tau
units
> > and I think they are all a bit high, especially the Battlesuits &
> > Commanders. I think we should drop the CAF values on all the Tau
> > infantry by 1. Battlesuits are quite a viable assault unit which
they
> > really shouldn't be. In 40K I would be pretty desperate if I
used my
> > Battlesuits to assault and I think it should be no different in
> > NetEpic. The Shas'o has a CAF of +6!!! That's way too high! I
think
> > a +4 is more then enough for him.
> >
> >> For a Tau player it might be hard to swallow, I admit. Yet, I am
not a
> >> Tau player, a Tau hater or anything; I have plenty of NetEpic
armies,
> >> including Tau, and I found they were just too good at shooting,
able to
> >> repel any ground assault. Tau Fire warriors can't be expelled
from a
> >> building apart from massive use of artillery, and this is simply
not
> >> fitting their theme :)
> >
> >
> > A fair comment but I think Tau /should/ be tough to shift on the
> > assault if they have the opportunity to fire at their
assailants. If
> > any survivors reach them they should die like dogs as they are
ripped
> > apart in CC but not many would reach them. Having played
Tyranids in
> > 40K with my Tau, not many of them reach the Tau but when they do
its a
> > horrific sight as they tear my brave Fire Warriors limb from limb.
> >
> > -Kelvin....
> >
> Hi!
>
> I agree with Kelvin in keeping the 4+ to hit. It makes them
different. I
> like the original restrictions on toning down the reroll business,
but
> would like to keep the 4+ to hit.
>
> Peter
>
Received on Fri Apr 14 2006 - 17:50:46 UTC