Don't know if this has been suggested, so excuse me if it has
already.
Titan CC :
Keep regular CAF. Let Titan roll 4d6 +CAF against all
non-titans/praetorians. If one or more titans/praetorians
attack with other forces (ie. inf/vehicles/heavies),
conclude one CC for the titan/praetorian classes, and
another for the other forces (titan only gets regular
2d6 against other titans/praetorians). The "grunt"
attacks are resolved as follows : roll 2d6 and add
the CAF of all the grunts involved. Elites add an
extra +1CAF/stand . Resolve CC.
If titan gets a hit, roll auto damage on location (legs,
unless jump pack units are 50% or more of the
attacking force).
This would reflect the titans strength, but also give
decent infantry a fighting chance. Better infantry
will have a better chance. Terminators/exarchs/vanguards
would rock, and the titan would only suffer one hit
regardless. I can't see any downside to this rule
at the moment, but im sure someone will point
something out to me :-)
Rune
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Barr [mailto:jimebarr_at_...]
Sent: 2000-04-17 01:16
To: netepic_at_egroups.com
Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: A little math on titan CC
Hi,
Thanks for doing the number crunching Weasel, should be a
good solid
base for discussion (&dissent!) ! The Marine results both
illustrate
the use of fodder pretty well, they'd take it a lot worse
w/out the
rhinos. To make it more complicated...
Option J2 - Normal CAF, 2nd Ed CC w/multiple attackers only
getting
1/2d6 per extra attacker.
IG: lose 7 stands, tie, 2 hits on titan.
Tac SM: lose rhinos, 2 marines, 2-3 hits on titan
Vets: lose rhinos, 2 marines, 3-4 hits on titan.
Exarchs: lose 2 exarchs, 2 hits on titan.
Option J3: If the whole idea is to keep titans from getting
swamped
by fodder, assign some arbitrary max number of units that
can attack
a titan at one time. Base it on titans size, for ex: scout
titans 5,
Reaver-level 8, Warlord-level 10, Imperator 20 or something.
Would
allow some uses for fodder to soften Titan up, but you'd
want some
heavy hitters to actually do the damage. Big fuss would be
deciding
what titans are what "level".
Option J4: Normal 2nd ed CC, but allow titans their armor
save
(Heresy!), maybe w/a mod of -1 per every 2 or 3 pts of CAF
the
attacker has (ie Termies would give a -2 or -3 save mod).
Would
allow a titan to take mult hits and keep going even if it
"loses",
and would encourage attackers to go for weaker areas - unit
swarms
over titan, damages it, next round desperately seek
cover...:)
I can feel the fires warming up even now...;)
Jim
--- In netepic_at_egroups.com, "Weasel Fierce" <septimus__at_h...>
wrote:
> Hi guys.
> The titan close combat discussions has been raging for
quite a
while. I have
> made some calculations on the chances for infantry to
survive and
cause
> damage.
>
> In these examples I have used a reaver titan (CAF +12)
with no
extra CC
> weapons.
> I have used 4 infantry detachments in the examples: An IG
tactical
> detachment (10 stands CAF +0), a marine tactical
detachment (6
stands CAF
> +2, 3 rhinos CAF +0), a marine veteran detachment (6
stands CAF +4
elite, 3
> rhinos CAF +0) and an eldar exarch detachment (4 stands
CAF +8
elite).
>
> While warlords are the main battle titan, reavers are much
more
common on
> the gaming boards. Also, it is a very good all-round
titan. Eldar
phantoms
> and warlocks got +12 too (i think)
>
> Here goes:
>
> A: Original 2nd edition epic rules. The average result for
the
reaver is 19.
>
> The IG grunts will reach an average CC result of 17.5 with
the
fourth stand
> (which dies) and 21 with the fifth (which wins). So on
average,
every stand
> after number five will hit the titan.
> Result: 4 stands lost, titan suffer 6 hits.
>
> The marines throw their rhinos in first. Rhino 3 get an
average
value of 14.
> The first marine stand get 19.5 and will propably draw
then. Each
stand
> after that will get a higher result on average.
> Result: 3 rhinos lost. Titan suffers 5 hits.
>
> The veterans get similar results with the rhinos. However
the first
veteran
> stand has an average score of 21.5.
> Result: 3 rhinos wasted. 6 hits to mr. titan.
>
> The pointy eared eldar get 18.5 on average with the second
stand.
This can
> be considered a draw.
> Result: 1 stand die, 2 hits to the titan.
>
> Conclusion: Strength in numbers. It doesnt matter much
what you
throw at the
> titan, its gonna suffer.
> Actually the really heavy guys (exarches, termies etc.)
are less
effective
> than the cheap grunts because of the smaller gang-up
bonusses.
>
> B: 2nd edition rules but titans roll 4d6. This gives the
reaver an
average
> of 28.
>
> The IG will reach a draw with stand 7 and win with stand
8.
> Result: 6 stands gone, 3 hits. If the tac's suffers hits
before the
> engagement they are in for a tough fight.
>
> Marine assault (tac's) wins after marine stand 3.
> Result: 3 rhinos and 2 stands go down. 4 hits to the
titan. (Note
that
> before the IG got more hits in)
>
> Veterans win with the second stand (average 29)
> Result: 3 rhinos and 1 stand dead. 5 hits to titan.
>
> The eldar get the axe here, actually the fourth stand gets
an
average 25.5
> Result: 4 squished eldar stands. 1 unscathed titan.
>
> Conclusion: Much tougher for the grunts. Elites need cheap
back-up.
A few
> guardians would have helped the eldar.
>
> C: 2nd edition but titans double CAF (Average result of
31)
>
> The guard reach a draw / win with stand 8 (average 31.5)
> Result: 7 stands die, 2-3 hits.
>
> Marine tacticals get 30.5 with stand 3.
> Result: 3 rhinos, 2-3 stands dead. Titan gets 3-4 hits.
>
> Veterans win big with stand 3.
> Result: 3 rhinos, 2 stands away, 4 hits to titan.
>
> The eldar cant reach an average of 31 so they perish.
>
> Conclusion: Not much different, but the bigger titans will
get MUCH
meaner,
> while warhounds etc. will be swamped.
>
> D: The current NetEpic 3.0 rules.
>
> The imperial guard will on average get 1-2 stands through.
> Result: 8-9 dead IG, 1-2 hits on the legs with a save
modifier of -
0.
>
> The marines have a rough 50% chance of causing a hit with
a rhino
(which die
> anyway) and -0 to save. On average 1 stand survive.
> Result: 3 dead rhinos, 5 stands dead. 1 hit with -2, 0-1
hit with -
0.
>
> The veterans have 2 survivors but other wise little more
happens.
> Result: 3 rhinos wasted. 4 stands die. 2 hits -3, 0-1 hit
-0.
>
> Exarches get 1 hit. 2 if lucky.
> Result: 2-3 (most likely 3) dead. 1-2 hits with -3.
>
> Conclusion: Infantry get wasted big time. I think it is
interesting
that
> tactical marines (CAF +4, 350 points I think), do more
harm than
the
> exarches (CAF +8, 400 points)
>
> E: 2nd edition but multiple attacker bonus is limited to
+1 per
previous
> combatant.
>
> The IG might cause damage with the final stand (average
18)
> Result: 9-10 dead.
>
> Our beloved marines get an average of 17 at most.
> Result: 3 dead rhinos, 6 dead marines
>
> The veterans reach 19 on average with the final stand.
> Result: 3 dead rhinos, 5 stands dead, no damage to reaver
>
> The eldar get a final average of 18.
> Result: Squish, squish, squish, squish
>
> Conclusion: Much too wild. This makes the titans too
invulnerable.
>
> F: 2nd edition but add +1 for every previous attacker,
unless that
attacker
> was elite (which adds +2)
>
> This does not change things for the IG and tacticals.
> The veterans get an average of 20 (win) with stand 4
> Result: lose 3 rhinos and 3 stands. Score 3 hits.
>
> The eldar get an average of 19 with stand 3.
> Result: 2 stands lost, 1 hit scored.
>
> Conclusion: Elites might do it, with sufficient
sacrifices. Others
still
> bite it.
>
> G: 2nd edition but add +2 for every previous attacker, +3
for
elites.
>
> IG will draw with stand 7.
> Result: 6 lost, 3 hits on titan
>
> Marines draw with stand 3.
> Result: Lose 3 rhinos and 2 stands. Score 3 hits.
>
> Veterans will win after the first marine stand..
> Result: Lose 3 rhinos and 1 stand. Cause 5 agonising hits.
>
> The eldar will win after 2 stands.
> Result: 2 lost, 2 hits.
>
> Conclusion: This seems pretty acceptable. It is costly,
but can
succeed. I
> rather like this.
>
>
> These results should bear in mind that they are calculated
on
average
> results, they do not take wild luck into account or the
fact that
the
> infantry might very well have suffered casualties along
the way.
>
> But it is up to people to decideEUR '�just though I
wanted to show
this
to you.
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Win $1000 at eGroups!
Click here to find out how:
http://click.egroups.com/1/2861/3/_/7255/_/955926970/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Received on Mon Apr 17 2000 - 07:11:06 UTC