Hi!
Hellreich has made an excellent point!! I would permit ANY psychic power
to affect fliers ONLY if they were attacked by the fliers.
Nice slam dunk by Hellreich.
What say others?
Peter
Hellreich wrote:
> Ok Ok OK OK, lets end this debate right now
> 1: was the plane attacking the warlock?
> If the planes were not attacking the Warlock then he would not have been
> able to draw fire on them with any of his weapons or mind powers for!!!
> 1: he is an infantry troop
> 2: Infantry may and I repeat may only fire upon planes that are attacking
> them.!! And you'll find this in the old rules. !!!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave " <warprat_at_...>
> To: <netepic_at_egroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 6:20 PM
> Subject: [NetEpic ML] [Net Epic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
>
>
>> Hi Peter!
>>
>> I am seeking the wording in both game systems, NetEpic and Games
>> Workshop. The wording was not changed in Titan Legions (I Think,
>> check me, I might be wrong,) and was released in the Original Space
>> Marine set. So they had plenty of time to alter the rules, if they
>> wanted to. They did alter the cost of Striking Scorpians, and some
>> other things, when the 2nd set of cards came out. Warlocks cards
>> have not been altered one bit since the 1st set of cards came out.
>>
>> My feeling is that everyone has thier own way of handling this based
>> on tradition and hearsay. NetEpic, and your flyer rules have favored
>> aircraft, and made them more like thier modern day counterparts.
>> Hence, the off board flyer morement of NetEpic yore. Flyers, in your
>> wiew, are very hard to hit.
>>
>> Psycic powers upset your Flyer Rules. If you can hold that sceaming
>> aircraft on the table, instead of letting it move away, you can
>> easily target it. This would be devestating to your notion of how a
>> Flyer Rules system should be. If I liked to have hard to hit, fast
>> flyers, and really believed that was the best way to go, I would
>> probably interpret the Psychic Rules as you do now.
>>
>> But I don't... I see aircraft more in the Games Workshop way, with
>> high and low elevation, and much, much easier to shoot down
>> aircraft. The Psychic Powers under the old Games Workshop rules, if
>> you used them as I do, were not that great a danger against aircraft.
>> Aircraft were easily targeted by a great number of more mundane
>> weapons. So you hold the T-Hawk, and make it motionless. Dosn't
>> really matter too much, you could target the T-Hawk with your guns,
>> without penalty, (or a small penalty), anyway!
>>
>> Maybe I'm off the mark on this, I certainly don't want to put words
>> in your mouth, but this is my perception.
>>
>> Thanks for the info on the imobilized unit CAF, that's good stuff to
>> know. As is ALL you info, even if I have a different point of view!
>>
>>
>> Thanks Peter!
>>
>> Warprat ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In netepic_at_egroups.com, "Peter Ramos" <primarch_at_b...> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> The wording is okay IF you remember the power was there before
>>
>> flyers were
>>
>>> introduced to the game. You will find it hard to find hard and fast
>>> interpretations from GW because we all know their bad habit of
>>
>> introducing
>>
>>> rules to the game without thought of the effects on already
>>
>> existent rules
>>
>>> and units.
>>>
>>> That's why in net epic we have made those things clearer, since GW
>>
>> never
>>
>>> did. Anytime you find this problem, that's the usual reason, old
>>
>> rules
>>
>>> weren't taken into account for new rules and units.
>>>
>>> As for immobilized units the rule is one only: "immobilized units
>>
>> lose their
>>
>>> CAF bonus, they only roll the basic 2d6". That's for all units in
>>
>> the game.
>>
>>> By the way Dave are you seeking the wording in the original game
>>
>> rules or in
>>
>>> net epic. If its an omission let me know, I'm not clear on what
>>
>> source you
>>
>>> are referring to.
>>>
>>> Regarding flier, one of the reasons that flyers are now sort of an
>>
>> optional
>>
>>> thing overall speaks to what you point out regarding disagreements
>>
>> between
>>
>>> players. That's why we left something very bare bones as core and
>>
>> let people
>>
>>> sort out their house rules.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dave [mailto:warprat_at_j...]
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 5:05 PM
>>> To: netepic_at_egroups.com
>>> Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Questor!
>>>
>>> Well, I guess we just won't be able to agree on this. And that's
>>
>> OK.
>>
>>> I WOULD like to see that Q and A from GW, so I know where GW is
>>> comming from on this.
>>>
>>> If you are right, the wording on the power is extreamly poor.
>>
>> Saying
>>
>>> nothing about Flyers being excluded, and nothing in the pschic
>>
>> rules,
>>
>>> (at least that I could find). Please find a rule, if you can, I
>>
>> hate
>>
>>> these kind of discrepancies.
>>>
>>> As far as targeting a piece of ground, I see no support for that
>>
>> idea.
>>
>>> Nothing against it, but nothing for it either.
>>>
>>> It isn't an auto kill, because beyond immobilizing the target, it
>>> does nothing else. It could make the flyer more easy to target,
>>> however. With the original GW Flyer rules, targeting flyers was
>>
>> much
>>
>>> easier. So the Warlock power Psychic Lock was not very devestating
>>> to flyers, compared to NetEpic. NetEpic has made flyers much harder
>>> to kill. I know that my group and others are using House Rules for
>>> flyers, because it's a big point of disagreement.
>>>
>>>
>>> Warprat ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In netepic_at_egroups.com, quester <quester666_at_y...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ok think about it this way the lock is not put in place at the
>>>
>>> speed of thought it takes time to manafest so to say
>>>
>>>> and it is a blast effect weapon attack and as per game rules they
>>>
>>> can t target flyers This is the big reason you can use it on flyers
>>> and if you use it on a flyer it would be a auto kill with no dice
>>> rolling making it way to powerful Its not writen to be a killing
>>> power
>>>
>>>> The warlock is not targeting a unit but a spot of ground with a
>>>
>>> time lock effect that blasts out from that point stoping time in
>>
>> the
>>
>>> blast
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave <warprat_at_j...> wrote:
>>>> Hi Hellreich!
>>>>
>>>> How fast does a unit have to go, to not be targeted? Mind powers
>>>> operate at the speed of thought. True, some take form in energy
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>>> matter, but even those can be Snap fired. Non-physical powers
>>>
>>> should
>>>
>>>> be even faster, because there is no travel time in physical space.
>>>> The unit thinks it, and it happens. And in the case of Pschic
>>>
>>> Lock,
>>>
>>>> it keeps on happening, as long as the Warlock concentrates, or the
>>>> model breaks free. Since the Warlock can hold a Titan, it's
>>>
>>> basicly
>>>
>>>> a matter of concentration on the Warlocks part.
>>>>
>>>> Also, think about this. A plane is in the air and probably
>>>
>> visable
>>
>>>> the entire turn. A bike can be behind cover, only visible for the
>>>> last 2cm. Yet, only the bike could be targeted? Reaction wise,
>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>> plane should be an easier target.
>>>>
>>>> Is the Warlock ONLY using his power once per turn, like a spell
>>>
>>> being
>>>
>>>> cast after a lenghthy incantation? Or is the Warlock like most
>>>
>>> other
>>>
>>>> units, firing and targeting through the whole turn? In game
>>>
>> terms,
>>
>>>> we give each unit a roll of the die, a chance to affect one thing.
>>>> But in real life, targeting and fire is more of a constant stream,
>>>> than ONE big burst. The Psycic lock can last entire turns.
>>>>
>>>> I view the Warlock power Psychic Lock, similar to the Babylon 5
>>>> psycic power, used to hold Shadow ships. They had to be able to
>>>
>>> see
>>>
>>>> the enemy ships with thier own eyes, yet the enemy moved very,
>>>
>>> very,
>>>
>>>> fast.
>>>>
>>>> Warprat ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In netepic_at_egroups.com, "Hellreich" <hellreich_at_n...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> sure bikes and titans are slower then planes. Think about it, a
>>>>
>>>> bike top
>>>>
>>>>> speed 200mph, Ever ride one that fast? Just trying to hold on is
>>>>
>>>> hard enough
>>>>
>>>>> at 167mph, I know I'm nuts and onw one hehehehe :-) GSXR750.
>>>>
>>> Plane
>>>
>>>> single
>>>>
>>>>> prop, this thing has to reach 100mph just to take off. A jet
>>>>
>>> mach1 -
>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> faster than sound. Pretty hard to target something that fast. If
>>>>
>>>> the plane
>>>>
>>>>> just stopped it would crash to the ground. The warlock has to
>>>>
>>> have
>>>
>>>> time
>>>>
>>>>> enough to effect the model the plane would have been there and
>>>>
>>> gone.
>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Dave " <warprat_at_j...>
>>>>> To: <netepic_at_egroups.com>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 6:40 PM
>>>>> Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Peter, Quester, and all!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm going to put a set of Flyer House Rules together for my
>>>>>
>>>> playing
>>>>
>>>>>> group. It will be mostly based on the "Old GW Rules", with
>>>>>
>> some
>>
>>>>>> additions from Peters and Nils Flyer Rules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I used some Warlocks on some T-Hawks last game. Looks like I
>>>>>
>>>> made a
>>>>
>>>>>> mistake, but you couldn't tell just by reading the rules. The
>>>>>
>>>> rules
>>>>
>>>>>> say ANY model, and Psychic powers are capable of being Snap
>>>>>
>>> Fired.
>>>
>>>>>> I sure would like to see that Games Workshop Q and A's,
>>>>>
>> because
>>
>>> I
>>>
>>>>>> viewed the Warlock Power as something that was more
>>>>>
>> sustainable,
>>
>>>>>> being as how it could last from turn to turn. The power can
>>>>>
>>> hold
>>>
>>>>>> Titans, so it's also strong. Many bikes are almost as fast
>>>>>
>> as a
>>
>>>>>> flyer, faster if you use a Chaos Card. But yet, bikes can be
>>>>>
>>>> held,
>>>>
>>>>>> and flyers can't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmmmm, this still doesn't make sense to me. Warlocks and
>>>>>
>> other
>>
>>>>>> Psychers are usually a Special Card, so it doesn't seem a play
>>>>>> ballance issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why this rule, anyone have any opinions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warprat ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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Received on Sun Dec 17 2000 - 15:40:26 UTC