Hi!
The detail descriptions of what powers may do will be in the army lists.
The core rules only contain the bare bones of a flyer system since the
flyer system will be considered pretty much optional for players to do
as they will. I t's good you brought this up since now more care will be
given to the descriptions.
I understand your view on fliers. My main concern is that it is too easy
for a player to cheaply and effectively nuetralize fliers for fewer
points than it is for the opponent to field them. Remember even cheap
flyers are 250 points per detachment. You can get two warlocks for that
amount and easily nuetralize them with psychic storm (template effect).
Thats not even considering Eldar firestorms!! As always it is a balance
between reason and balance, always a tricky thing!
Thank you very much for the input Dave you have given me much to think
about.
Peter
Dave wrote:
> Hi Peter!
>
> I am seeking the wording in both game systems, NetEpic and Games
> Workshop. The wording was not changed in Titan Legions (I Think,
> check me, I might be wrong,) and was released in the Original Space
> Marine set. So they had plenty of time to alter the rules, if they
> wanted to. They did alter the cost of Striking Scorpians, and some
> other things, when the 2nd set of cards came out. Warlocks cards
> have not been altered one bit since the 1st set of cards came out.
>
> My feeling is that everyone has thier own way of handling this based
> on tradition and hearsay. NetEpic, and your flyer rules have favored
> aircraft, and made them more like thier modern day counterparts.
> Hence, the off board flyer morement of NetEpic yore. Flyers, in your
> wiew, are very hard to hit.
>
> Psycic powers upset your Flyer Rules. If you can hold that sceaming
> aircraft on the table, instead of letting it move away, you can
> easily target it. This would be devestating to your notion of how a
> Flyer Rules system should be. If I liked to have hard to hit, fast
> flyers, and really believed that was the best way to go, I would
> probably interpret the Psychic Rules as you do now.
>
> But I don't... I see aircraft more in the Games Workshop way, with
> high and low elevation, and much, much easier to shoot down
> aircraft. The Psychic Powers under the old Games Workshop rules, if
> you used them as I do, were not that great a danger against aircraft.
> Aircraft were easily targeted by a great number of more mundane
> weapons. So you hold the T-Hawk, and make it motionless. Dosn't
> really matter too much, you could target the T-Hawk with your guns,
> without penalty, (or a small penalty), anyway!
>
> Maybe I'm off the mark on this, I certainly don't want to put words
> in your mouth, but this is my perception.
>
> Thanks for the info on the imobilized unit CAF, that's good stuff to
> know. As is ALL you info, even if I have a different point of view!
>
>
> Thanks Peter!
>
> Warprat ;)
>
>
>
> --- In netepic_at_egroups.com, "Peter Ramos" <primarch_at_b...> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> The wording is okay IF you remember the power was there before
>
> flyers were
>
>> introduced to the game. You will find it hard to find hard and fast
>> interpretations from GW because we all know their bad habit of
>
> introducing
>
>> rules to the game without thought of the effects on already
>
> existent rules
>
>> and units.
>>
>> That's why in net epic we have made those things clearer, since GW
>
> never
>
>> did. Anytime you find this problem, that's the usual reason, old
>
> rules
>
>> weren't taken into account for new rules and units.
>>
>> As for immobilized units the rule is one only: "immobilized units
>
> lose their
>
>> CAF bonus, they only roll the basic 2d6". That's for all units in
>
> the game.
>
>> By the way Dave are you seeking the wording in the original game
>
> rules or in
>
>> net epic. If its an omission let me know, I'm not clear on what
>
> source you
>
>> are referring to.
>>
>> Regarding flier, one of the reasons that flyers are now sort of an
>
> optional
>
>> thing overall speaks to what you point out regarding disagreements
>
> between
>
>> players. That's why we left something very bare bones as core and
>
> let people
>
>> sort out their house rules.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dave [mailto:warprat_at_j...]
>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 5:05 PM
>> To: netepic_at_egroups.com
>> Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
>>
>>
>> Hi Questor!
>>
>> Well, I guess we just won't be able to agree on this. And that's
>
> OK.
>
>> I WOULD like to see that Q and A from GW, so I know where GW is
>> comming from on this.
>>
>> If you are right, the wording on the power is extreamly poor.
>
> Saying
>
>> nothing about Flyers being excluded, and nothing in the pschic
>
> rules,
>
>> (at least that I could find). Please find a rule, if you can, I
>
> hate
>
>> these kind of discrepancies.
>>
>> As far as targeting a piece of ground, I see no support for that
>
> idea.
>
>> Nothing against it, but nothing for it either.
>>
>> It isn't an auto kill, because beyond immobilizing the target, it
>> does nothing else. It could make the flyer more easy to target,
>> however. With the original GW Flyer rules, targeting flyers was
>
> much
>
>> easier. So the Warlock power Psychic Lock was not very devestating
>> to flyers, compared to NetEpic. NetEpic has made flyers much harder
>> to kill. I know that my group and others are using House Rules for
>> flyers, because it's a big point of disagreement.
>>
>>
>> Warprat ;)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In netepic_at_egroups.com, quester <quester666_at_y...> wrote:
>>
>>> ok think about it this way the lock is not put in place at the
>>
>> speed of thought it takes time to manafest so to say
>>
>>> and it is a blast effect weapon attack and as per game rules they
>>
>> can t target flyers This is the big reason you can use it on flyers
>> and if you use it on a flyer it would be a auto kill with no dice
>> rolling making it way to powerful Its not writen to be a killing
>> power
>>
>>> The warlock is not targeting a unit but a spot of ground with a
>>
>> time lock effect that blasts out from that point stoping time in
>
> the
>
>> blast
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave <warprat_at_j...> wrote:
>>> Hi Hellreich!
>>>
>>> How fast does a unit have to go, to not be targeted? Mind powers
>>> operate at the speed of thought. True, some take form in energy
>>
>> and
>>
>>> matter, but even those can be Snap fired. Non-physical powers
>>
>> should
>>
>>> be even faster, because there is no travel time in physical space.
>>> The unit thinks it, and it happens. And in the case of Pschic
>>
>> Lock,
>>
>>> it keeps on happening, as long as the Warlock concentrates, or the
>>> model breaks free. Since the Warlock can hold a Titan, it's
>>
>> basicly
>>
>>> a matter of concentration on the Warlocks part.
>>>
>>> Also, think about this. A plane is in the air and probably
>>
> visable
>
>>> the entire turn. A bike can be behind cover, only visible for the
>>> last 2cm. Yet, only the bike could be targeted? Reaction wise,
>>
>> the
>>
>>> plane should be an easier target.
>>>
>>> Is the Warlock ONLY using his power once per turn, like a spell
>>
>> being
>>
>>> cast after a lenghthy incantation? Or is the Warlock like most
>>
>> other
>>
>>> units, firing and targeting through the whole turn? In game
>>
> terms,
>
>>> we give each unit a roll of the die, a chance to affect one thing.
>>> But in real life, targeting and fire is more of a constant stream,
>>> than ONE big burst. The Psycic lock can last entire turns.
>>>
>>> I view the Warlock power Psychic Lock, similar to the Babylon 5
>>> psycic power, used to hold Shadow ships. They had to be able to
>>
>> see
>>
>>> the enemy ships with thier own eyes, yet the enemy moved very,
>>
>> very,
>>
>>> fast.
>>>
>>> Warprat ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In netepic_at_egroups.com, "Hellreich" <hellreich_at_n...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> sure bikes and titans are slower then planes. Think about it, a
>>>
>>> bike top
>>>
>>>> speed 200mph, Ever ride one that fast? Just trying to hold on is
>>>
>>> hard enough
>>>
>>>> at 167mph, I know I'm nuts and onw one hehehehe :-) GSXR750.
>>>
>> Plane
>>
>>> single
>>>
>>>> prop, this thing has to reach 100mph just to take off. A jet
>>>
>> mach1 -
>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>> faster than sound. Pretty hard to target something that fast. If
>>>
>>> the plane
>>>
>>>> just stopped it would crash to the ground. The warlock has to
>>>
>> have
>>
>>> time
>>>
>>>> enough to effect the model the plane would have been there and
>>>
>> gone.
>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Dave " <warprat_at_j...>
>>>> To: <netepic_at_egroups.com>
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 6:40 PM
>>>> Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Peter, Quester, and all!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm going to put a set of Flyer House Rules together for my
>>>>
>>> playing
>>>
>>>>> group. It will be mostly based on the "Old GW Rules", with
>>>>
> some
>
>>>>> additions from Peters and Nils Flyer Rules.
>>>>>
>>>>> I used some Warlocks on some T-Hawks last game. Looks like I
>>>>
>>> made a
>>>
>>>>> mistake, but you couldn't tell just by reading the rules. The
>>>>
>>> rules
>>>
>>>>> say ANY model, and Psychic powers are capable of being Snap
>>>>
>> Fired.
>>
>>>>> I sure would like to see that Games Workshop Q and A's,
>>>>
> because
>
>> I
>>
>>>>> viewed the Warlock Power as something that was more
>>>>
> sustainable,
>
>>>>> being as how it could last from turn to turn. The power can
>>>>
>> hold
>>
>>>>> Titans, so it's also strong. Many bikes are almost as fast
>>>>
> as a
>
>>>>> flyer, faster if you use a Chaos Card. But yet, bikes can be
>>>>
>>> held,
>>>
>>>>> and flyers can't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmmmm, this still doesn't make sense to me. Warlocks and
>>>>
> other
>
>>>>> Psychers are usually a Special Card, so it doesn't seem a play
>>>>> ballance issue.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why this rule, anyone have any opinions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Warprat ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To unsubscribe send e-mail to: netepic-unsubscribe_at_egroups.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
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Received on Sun Dec 17 2000 - 05:43:17 UTC