Hi!
I'm pretty sure that it was never mentioned in the original space marine
rules, remember flyers are an add-on with only one article to their name.
Net epic has made that ruling though.
Peter
>From: "Hellreich" <hellreich_at_...>
>Reply-To: netepic_at_egroups.com
>To: <netepic_at_egroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] [Net Epic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:57:37 -0800
>
>yes the Weird boy may do this, for the fact that he is a weapon controlled
>by Badmoons and is not a infantry stand.
> As for the page # I'll have to dig out the old book and look it up. But
>I'd
>be all for the fact Psychic powers could be used on planes aslong as the
>plane was attacking that unit or model. In fact that is how we play it in
>our group.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "warprat" <warprat_at_...>
>To: <netepic_at_egroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 6:34 PM
>Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] [Net Epic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
>
>
> > Hi Helreich!
> >
> > Yes, your right, the plane was minding its own business and just
> > happened to get zapped by my Warlock.
> >
> > I believe, (correct me if I'm wrong,) that a Weird Boy may act as an
> > anti-aircraft unit, can even Snapfire at an aircraft. Other units with
> > psychic powers should have fast psychic reponse times also, in my own
> > somewhat but not very modest opinion.
> >
> > Knowing my view on Psycic Powers, thier speed, and soforth, you can
> > easily reason the rest out for yourself.
> >
> > Could you give me a page number on those "old rules", please? I don't
> > like to make a mistake, but I'll own up to it if I do. As I have in the
> > past, thank you very much.
> >
> > Also, please remember, my group is still trying to develope a set of air
> > rules my group can live with.
> >
> > Warprat ;)
> >
> >
> >
> > Hellreich wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok Ok OK OK, lets end this debate right now
> > > 1: was the plane attacking the warlock?
> > > If the planes were not attacking the Warlock then he would not have
>been
> > > able to draw fire on them with any of his weapons or mind powers
>for!!!
> > > 1: he is an infantry troop
> > > 2: Infantry may and I repeat may only fire upon planes that are
>attacking
> > > them.!! And you'll find this in the old rules. !!!
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dave " <warprat_at_...>
> > > To: <netepic_at_egroups.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 6:20 PM
> > > Subject: [NetEpic ML] [Net Epic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
> > >
> > > > Hi Peter!
> > > >
> > > > I am seeking the wording in both game systems, NetEpic and Games
> > > > Workshop. The wording was not changed in Titan Legions (I Think,
> > > > check me, I might be wrong,) and was released in the Original Space
> > > > Marine set. So they had plenty of time to alter the rules, if they
> > > > wanted to. They did alter the cost of Striking Scorpians, and some
> > > > other things, when the 2nd set of cards came out. Warlocks cards
> > > > have not been altered one bit since the 1st set of cards came out.
> > > >
> > > > My feeling is that everyone has thier own way of handling this based
> > > > on tradition and hearsay. NetEpic, and your flyer rules have
>favored
> > > > aircraft, and made them more like thier modern day counterparts.
> > > > Hence, the off board flyer morement of NetEpic yore. Flyers, in
>your
> > > > wiew, are very hard to hit.
> > > >
> > > > Psycic powers upset your Flyer Rules. If you can hold that sceaming
> > > > aircraft on the table, instead of letting it move away, you can
> > > > easily target it. This would be devestating to your notion of how a
> > > > Flyer Rules system should be. If I liked to have hard to hit, fast
> > > > flyers, and really believed that was the best way to go, I would
> > > > probably interpret the Psychic Rules as you do now.
> > > >
> > > > But I don't... I see aircraft more in the Games Workshop way, with
> > > > high and low elevation, and much, much easier to shoot down
> > > > aircraft. The Psychic Powers under the old Games Workshop rules, if
> > > > you used them as I do, were not that great a danger against
>aircraft.
> > > > Aircraft were easily targeted by a great number of more mundane
> > > > weapons. So you hold the T-Hawk, and make it motionless. Dosn't
> > > > really matter too much, you could target the T-Hawk with your guns,
> > > > without penalty, (or a small penalty), anyway!
> > > >
> > > > Maybe I'm off the mark on this, I certainly don't want to put words
> > > > in your mouth, but this is my perception.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the info on the imobilized unit CAF, that's good stuff to
> > > > know. As is ALL you info, even if I have a different point of view!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Peter!
> > > >
> > > > Warprat ;)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In netepic_at_egroups.com, "Peter Ramos" <primarch_at_b...> wrote:
> > > > > Hi!
> > > > >
> > > > > The wording is okay IF you remember the power was there before
> > > > flyers were
> > > > > introduced to the game. You will find it hard to find hard and
>fast
> > > > > interpretations from GW because we all know their bad habit of
> > > > introducing
> > > > > rules to the game without thought of the effects on already
> > > > existent rules
> > > > > and units.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's why in net epic we have made those things clearer, since GW
> > > > never
> > > > > did. Anytime you find this problem, that's the usual reason, old
> > > > rules
> > > > > weren't taken into account for new rules and units.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for immobilized units the rule is one only: "immobilized units
> > > > lose their
> > > > > CAF bonus, they only roll the basic 2d6". That's for all units in
> > > > the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way Dave are you seeking the wording in the original game
> > > > rules or in
> > > > > net epic. If its an omission let me know, I'm not clear on what
> > > > source you
> > > > > are referring to.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding flier, one of the reasons that flyers are now sort of an
> > > > optional
> > > > > thing overall speaks to what you point out regarding disagreements
> > > > between
> > > > > players. That's why we left something very bare bones as core and
> > > > let people
> > > > > sort out their house rules.
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Dave [mailto:warprat_at_j...]
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 5:05 PM
> > > > > To: netepic_at_egroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Questor!
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, I guess we just won't be able to agree on this. And that's
> > > > OK.
> > > > > I WOULD like to see that Q and A from GW, so I know where GW is
> > > > > comming from on this.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are right, the wording on the power is extreamly poor.
> > > > Saying
> > > > > nothing about Flyers being excluded, and nothing in the pschic
> > > > rules,
> > > > > (at least that I could find). Please find a rule, if you can, I
> > > > hate
> > > > > these kind of discrepancies.
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as targeting a piece of ground, I see no support for that
> > > > idea.
> > > > > Nothing against it, but nothing for it either.
> > > > >
> > > > > It isn't an auto kill, because beyond immobilizing the target, it
> > > > > does nothing else. It could make the flyer more easy to target,
> > > > > however. With the original GW Flyer rules, targeting flyers was
> > > > much
> > > > > easier. So the Warlock power Psychic Lock was not very
>devestating
> > > > > to flyers, compared to NetEpic. NetEpic has made flyers much
>harder
> > > > > to kill. I know that my group and others are using House Rules
>for
> > > > > flyers, because it's a big point of disagreement.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Warprat ;)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In netepic_at_egroups.com, quester <quester666_at_y...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ok think about it this way the lock is not put in place at the
> > > > > speed of thought it takes time to manafest so to say
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and it is a blast effect weapon attack and as per game rules
>they
> > > > > can t target flyers This is the big reason you can use it on
>flyers
> > > > > and if you use it on a flyer it would be a auto kill with no dice
> > > > > rolling making it way to powerful Its not writen to be a killing
> > > > > power
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The warlock is not targeting a unit but a spot of ground with a
> > > > > time lock effect that blasts out from that point stoping time in
> > > > the
> > > > > blast
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dave <warprat_at_j...> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi Hellreich!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How fast does a unit have to go, to not be targeted? Mind
>powers
> > > > > > operate at the speed of thought. True, some take form in energy
> > > > > and
> > > > > > matter, but even those can be Snap fired. Non-physical powers
> > > > > should
> > > > > > be even faster, because there is no travel time in physical
>space.
> > > > > > The unit thinks it, and it happens. And in the case of Pschic
> > > > > Lock,
> > > > > > it keeps on happening, as long as the Warlock concentrates, or
>the
> > > > > > model breaks free. Since the Warlock can hold a Titan, it's
> > > > > basicly
> > > > > > a matter of concentration on the Warlocks part.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, think about this. A plane is in the air and probably
> > > > visable
> > > > > > the entire turn. A bike can be behind cover, only visible for
>the
> > > > > > last 2cm. Yet, only the bike could be targeted? Reaction wise,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > plane should be an easier target.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is the Warlock ONLY using his power once per turn, like a spell
> > > > > being
> > > > > > cast after a lenghthy incantation? Or is the Warlock like most
> > > > > other
> > > > > > units, firing and targeting through the whole turn? In game
> > > > terms,
> > > > > > we give each unit a roll of the die, a chance to affect one
>thing.
> > > > > > But in real life, targeting and fire is more of a constant
>stream,
> > > > > > than ONE big burst. The Psycic lock can last entire turns.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I view the Warlock power Psychic Lock, similar to the Babylon 5
> > > > > > psycic power, used to hold Shadow ships. They had to be able to
> > > > > see
> > > > > > the enemy ships with thier own eyes, yet the enemy moved very,
> > > > > very,
> > > > > > fast.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Warprat ;)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In netepic_at_egroups.com, "Hellreich" <hellreich_at_n...> wrote:
> > > > > > > sure bikes and titans are slower then planes. Think about it,
>a
> > > > > > bike top
> > > > > > > speed 200mph, Ever ride one that fast? Just trying to hold on
>is
> > > > > > hard enough
> > > > > > > at 167mph, I know I'm nuts and onw one hehehehe :-) GSXR750.
> > > > > Plane
> > > > > > single
> > > > > > > prop, this thing has to reach 100mph just to take off. A jet
> > > > > mach1 -
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > faster than sound. Pretty hard to target something that fast.
>If
> > > > > > the plane
> > > > > > > just stopped it would crash to the ground. The warlock has to
> > > > > have
> > > > > > time
> > > > > > > enough to effect the model the plane would have been there and
> > > > > gone.
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Dave " <warprat_at_j...>
> > > > > > > To: <netepic_at_egroups.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 6:40 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Peter, Quester, and all!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm going to put a set of Flyer House Rules together for my
> > > > > > playing
> > > > > > > > group. It will be mostly based on the "Old GW Rules", with
> > > > some
> > > > > > > > additions from Peters and Nils Flyer Rules.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I used some Warlocks on some T-Hawks last game. Looks like
>I
> > > > > > made a
> > > > > > > > mistake, but you couldn't tell just by reading the rules.
>The
> > > > > > rules
> > > > > > > > say ANY model, and Psychic powers are capable of being Snap
> > > > > Fired.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I sure would like to see that Games Workshop Q and A's,
> > > > because
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > viewed the Warlock Power as something that was more
> > > > sustainable,
> > > > > > > > being as how it could last from turn to turn. The power can
> > > > > hold
> > > > > > > > Titans, so it's also strong. Many bikes are almost as fast
> > > > as a
> > > > > > > > flyer, faster if you use a Chaos Card. But yet, bikes can
>be
> > > > > > held,
> > > > > > > > and flyers can't.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hmmmm, this still doesn't make sense to me. Warlocks and
> > > > other
> > > > > > > > Psychers are usually a Special Card, so it doesn't seem a
>play
> > > > > > > > ballance issue.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why this rule, anyone have any opinions?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Warprat ;)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe send e-mail to:
>netepic-unsubscribe_at_egroups.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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Received on Mon Dec 18 2000 - 20:04:51 UTC