yes but, I'd have no problem letting Psyhic powers work on fliers if the flier was attacking them. Keep that in mind also.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Ramos
To: netepic_at_egroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] [Net Epic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
Hi!
The detail descriptions of what powers may do will be in the army lists. The core rules only contain the bare bones of a flyer system since the flyer system will be considered pretty much optional for players to do as they will. I t's good you brought this up since now more care will be given to the descriptions.
I understand your view on fliers. My main concern is that it is too easy for a player to cheaply and effectively nuetralize fliers for fewer points than it is for the opponent to field them. Remember even cheap flyers are 250 points per detachment. You can get two warlocks for that amount and easily nuetralize them with psychic storm (template effect). Thats not even considering Eldar firestorms!! As always it is a balance between reason and balance, always a tricky thing!
Thank you very much for the input Dave you have given me much to think about.
Peter
Dave wrote:
Hi Peter!I am seeking the wording in both game systems, NetEpic and Games Workshop. The wording was not changed in Titan Legions (I Think, check me, I might be wrong,) and was released in the Original Space Marine set. So they had plenty of time to alter the rules, if they wanted to. They did alter the cost of Striking Scorpians, and some other things, when the 2nd set of cards came out. Warlocks cards have not been altered one bit since the 1st set of cards came out. My feeling is that everyone has thier own way of handling this based on tradition and hearsay. NetEpic, and your flyer rules have favored aircraft, and made them more like thier modern day counterparts. Hence, the off board flyer morement of NetEpic yore. Flyers, in your wiew, are very hard to hit.Psycic powers upset your Flyer Rules. If you can hold that sceaming a!
ircraft on the table, instead of letting it move away, you can easily target it. This would be devestating to your notion of how a Flyer Rules system should be. If I liked to have hard to hit, fast flyers, and really believed that was the best way to go, I would probably interpret the Psychic Rules as you do now. But I don't... I see aircraft more in the Games Workshop way, with high and low elevation, and much, much easier to shoot down aircraft. The Psychic Powers under the old Games Workshop rules, if you used them as I do, were not that great a danger against aircraft. Aircraft were easily targeted by a great number of more mundane weapons. So you hold the T-Hawk, and make it motionless. Dosn't really matter too much, you could target the T-Hawk with your guns, without penalty, (or a small penalty), anyway!Maybe I'm off the mark on this, I certainly don't want to put words in your mouth, but this is my p!
erception.Thanks for the info on the imobilized unit CAF, that's good stuff to know. As is ALL you info, even if I have a different point of view!Thanks Peter!Warprat ;)--- In netepic_at_egroups.com, "Peter Ramos" <primarch_at_b...> wrote:
Hi!The wording is okay IF you remember the power was there before
flyers were
introduced to the game. You will find it hard to find hard and fastinterpretations from GW because we all know their bad habit of
introducing
rules to the game without thought of the effects on already
existent rules
and units.That's why in net epic we have made those things clearer, since GW
never
did. Anytime you find this problem, that's the usual reason, old
rules
weren't taken into account for new rules and units.As for immobilized units the rule is one only: "immobilized units
lose their
CAF bonus, they only roll the basic 2d6". That's for all units in
the game.
By the way Dave are you seeking the wording in the original game
rules or in
net epic. If its an omission let me know, I'm not clear on what
source you
are referring to.Regarding flier, one of the reasons that flyers are now sort of an
optional
thing overall speaks to what you point out regarding disagreements
between
players. That's why we left something very bare bones as core and
let people
sort out their house rules.Peter-----Original Message-----From: Dave [mailto:warprat_at_j...]Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 5:05 PMTo: netepic_at_egroups.comSubject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock PowersHi Questor!Well, I guess we just won't be able to agree on this. And that's
OK.
I WOULD like to see that Q and A from GW, so I know where GW iscomming from on this.If you are right, the wording on the power is extreamly poor.
Saying
nothing about Flyers being excluded, and nothing in the pschic
rules,
(at least that I could find). Please find a rule, if you can, I
hate
these kind of discrepancies.As far as targeting a piece of ground, I see no support for that
idea.
Nothing against it, but nothing for it either.It isn't an auto kill, because beyond immobilizing the target, itdoes nothing else. It could make the flyer more easy to target,however. With the original GW Flyer rules, targeting flyers was
much
easier. So the Warlock power Psychic Lock was not very devestatingto flyers, compared to NetEpic. NetEpic has made flyers much harderto kill. I know that my group and others are using House Rules forflyers, because it's a big point of disagreement.Warprat ;)--- In netepic_at_egroups.com, quester <quester666_at_y...> wrote:
ok think about it this way the lock is not put in place at the
speed of thought it takes time to manafest so to say
and it is a blast effect weapon attack and as per game rules they
can t target flyers This is the big reason you can use it !
on flyersand if you use it on a flyer it would be a auto kill with no dicerolling making it way to powerful Its not writen to be a killingpower
The warlock is not targeting a unit but a spot of ground with a
time lock effect that blasts out from that point stoping time in
the
blast
Dave <warprat_at_j...> wrote:Hi Hellreich!How fast does a unit have to go, to not be targeted? Mind powersoperate at the speed of thought. True, some take form in energy
and
matter, but even those can be Snap fired. Non-physical powers
should
be even faster, because there is no travel time in physical space.The unit thinks it, and it happens. And in the case of Pschic
Lock,
it keeps on happening, as long as the Warlock concentrates, or themodel breaks free. Since the Warlock can hold a Tita!
n, it's
basicly
a matter of concentration on the Warlocks part.Also, think about this. A plane is in the air and probably
visable
the entire turn. A bike can be behind cover, only visible for thelast 2cm. Yet, only the bike could be targeted? Reaction wise,
the
plane should be an easier target.Is the Warlock ONLY using his power once per turn, like a spell
being
cast after a lenghthy incantation? Or is the Warlock like most
other
units, firing and targeting through the whole turn? In game
terms,
we give each unit a roll of the die, a chance to affect one thing.But in real life, targeting and fire is more of a constant stream,than ONE big burst. The Psycic lock can last entire turns.I view the Warlock power Psychic Lock, similar to the Babylon 5psycic power, used to hold Shadow ships. They had to be able to
see
the enemy ships with thier own eyes, yet the enemy moved very,
very,
fast.Warprat ;)--- In netepic_at_egroups.com, "Hellreich" <hellreich_at_n...> wrote:
sure bikes and titans are slower then planes. Think about it, a
bike top
speed 200mph, Ever ride one that fast? Just trying to hold on is
hard enough
at 167mph, I know I'm nuts and onw one hehehehe :-) GSXR750.
Plane
single
prop, this thing has to reach 100mph just to take off. A jet
mach1 -
to
faster than sound. Pretty hard to target something that fast. If
the plane
just stopped it would crash to the ground. The warlock has to
have
time
enough to effect the model the plane would have been there and
gone.
----- Original Message -----From: "Dave " <warprat_at_j...>To: <netepic_at_egroups.com>Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 6:40 PMSubject: [NetEpic ML] Re: Eldar Warlock Powers
Hi Peter, Quester, and all!I'm going to put a set of Flyer House Rules together for my
playing
group. It will be mostly based on the "Old GW Rules", with
some
additions from Peters and Nils Flyer Rules.I used some Warlocks on some T-Hawks last game. Looks like I
made a
mistake, but you couldn't tell just by reading the rules. The
rules
say ANY model, and Psychic powers are capable of being Snap
Fired.
I sure would like to see that Games Workshop Q and A's,
because
I
viewed the Warlock Power as something that was more
sustainable,
being as how it could last from turn to turn. The power can
hold
Titans, so it's also strong. Many bikes are almost as fast
as a
flyer, faster if you use a Chaos Card. But yet, bikes can be
held,
and flyers can't.Hmmmm, this still doesn't make sense to me. Warlocks and
other
Psychers are usually a Special Card, so it doesn't seem a playballance issue.Why this rule, anyone have any opinions?Warprat ;)To unsubscribe send e-mail to: netepic-unsubscribe_at_egroups.com
_______________________________________________Why pay for something you could get for free?NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html
e!
Groups SponsorPaid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here!To unsubscribe send e-mail to: netepic-unsubscribe_at_egroups.comRuneSmith Studio "we bring the art to war"---------------------------------Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
To unsubscribe send e-mail to: netepic-unsubscribe_at_egroups.com
-------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~>eGroups eLertsIt's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/7255/_/977019642/---------------------------------------------------------------------_->To unsubscribe send e-mail to: netepic-unsubscribe_at_egroups.com
eGroups Sponsor
Paid Net2phone Advertisement - Click Here!
To unsubscribe send e-mail to: netepic-unsubscribe_at_egroups.com
Received on Tue Dec 19 2000 - 19:42:57 UTC