RE: [Epic] Deathwing Detachment

From: Chris White <chris_at_...>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:33:20 -0700

At 03:17 PM 7/31/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>>
>>
>>Taking into account everything all of you have said, did any of you notice
>>this special ability was costing each unit 5 extra points. I do agree they
>>are to powerful, but better to make them to powerful and then change them
>>to be less powerful then to make them not enough and increase the cost for
>>nothing in return. I like the idea of just automatically passing
>>leadership tests and/or ignoring the effects of blast markers. How much
>>would you pay for this? 3 points extra to a regular Terminator stand, i.e:
>>22 points? The reason I wanted to make this is because I play Dark Angels
>>and I don't want to have a mish-mosh of detachments from different chapters
>>only because of their abilities (I kind of think that leans a bit towards
>>cheese).
>
>------> It certainly can. I've noticed cheese depends more on the player
>than the
>army. Most players get a little queasy feeling as they approach cheese,
>and
>steer away. Others rush head long towards it. That said, the cheesers do
>seem to gravitate towards certain armies in certain games.
>
>> That's not to say my proposed Deathwing detachment isn't cheese
>>as is, because it is. I just couldn't think of a way to incorporate the
>>psychology thing into Epic40K, so i figured I'd write the rules up as I did
>>and see what other idea everyone else had (btw: what does it mean in 40K
>>to be immune to psychology?).
>----> In 40K certain creatures (and some devices) cause fear (blood
>claws on
>a charge, for example) or Terror (bloodthirsters). There are also
>hatred, frenzy,
>and others. What happens is when one of these units comes within a
>certain
>distance of or charges a unit, the unit has to make a Leadership test or
>break,
>in the case of terror.
> Immune to psych means you don't have to sweat this stuff. It's most
>handy fighting Chaos and 'Nids. Eldar "Shrieker" Cannons and Harlie
>holo-
>masks also cause fear.
> Marines don't have a terrible time with it, but for the Guard and Orks
>it can be a real pain.
>
>> I do really like the idea of automatic
>>leadership check pass and ignoring blast markers, but how many points for
>>this would you think is fair????????
>
>----> I still think ignoring them automatically is too strong. Re-rolls
>they already have,
>and a bonus might be OK - +1 to leadership checks for 5 pts?
>
>>As for the amount of units, I was just following the guidelines of the
>>ravenwing (50 units= one and a half full detachments). I think this should
>>be changed to to more closely resemble the Codex limits. That was the
>>reason I included Land Raiders and Dreadnought for support, but maybe I
>>should change that to allow an extra cost for 1 Land Raider per unit, and
>>no extras in the support column. And, for the Dreadnoughts a limit of
say 5.
>
>I'd say if you have the 20 stand limit for the troops, groups of 1-2,
>limit
>10 "picks", then put the dreads and LR's as support, limited to the same
>number as the main force picks, you're fine.
>>
>>I'll repost a fixed version later today and see what you guys think. I'd
>>like someone to give me an honest points cost for the automatic L.C. pass
>>and ignoring the effects of blast markers.
>>
>>I do appreciate the bluntness of you guys. I try to take critisizm well
>>and hope it will only make me a better gamer.
>
>
>>Ravenwing Speeder Motto: Dark Angels don't die, we just go back to the
>>rock and regroup!
>>
>>seether_at_...
>>Ezekiel- Grand Master of Librarians
>
>----> Blunt criticism - "Our Specialty"
> Anywhere but on this list <read-usenet> would have meant instant
>flamewar...
>
>Chris Miller
>
        
        One feature I like about the autopassing Ld test is this: IMMUNE means
never having to roll to check leadership. In 40K the most common
application of this is when being attacked by something which causes FEAR,
or simply being within 8" of something which causes TERROR. There is
another application, however. If a Deathwing character is leading a squad,
and they use his Ld to test for breaking from casualties, then they
automatically pass as well. (Win one for the Gipper, and all that...) This
allowed a general to put a squad in a completely untennable position and
expect that squad to die to the last man if necessary, which seems very
characterful somehow. It even can have tactical advantages when you really
need that take-and-hold or hold-the-line, or whatever.
        This kind of ability has been watered down considerably in E40K, resulting
in STUBBORN. However, they also eliminated anything which causes fear and
terror so there you go...
        It might be possible to auto-pass Ld tests, for about 4pts per unit, but
ignoring blast markers is WAY too cheesy; BMs are one of the main mechanics
of the way the game works, after all; screw around with it too much and
suddenly you're designing your own game.
        Another guideline: as those lovable Bugman's swilling blokes at GW/WD
mentioned in that ill-fated special detachment article, any modification
which costs more than 3 or 4 pts per unit should usually be reconsidered.

        Remember: FUN is the goal; you don't need anyone's permission as long as
everyone involved agrees to any proposed changes.

Nickles
Received on Thu Jul 31 1997 - 22:33:20 UTC