RE: [Epic] Orks with LandRaiders

From: Miller, Chris <CMiller_at_...>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:14:25 -0500

>I am intrigued ...
>
> explain to little 'ol me how the rules correlate ...
>
> just because units and weapons have the same names does not alter the
>fundamental MATHS of either system. A space marine dread is crap (subjective)
>in E40K whilst I rarely fight without them in WH40K but they are seperate
>games.
>
> I reitterate ... It is a mistake to look for a correlation between the maths
>(and therefore effects) of two utterly distinct gaming systems.
>
-----> Well, unfortunately they are not "utterly distinct gaming
systems." If you want to take that approach, take it it but I am going
to disagree on this basic premise right from the start.
We're not looking for a correlation between "maths", were looking to
translate units or figure out a system used for translating units from
one game to the next.. There may not be one (typical GW) but it doesn't
mean we can't come up with a reasonable facsimille.
Fact: The E40K designers took the majority of units for this game from
WH40K.
Fact: The designers had to assign each unit a value and statistics in
E40K
Fact: The designers have stated they wanted units abilities in E40K to
reflect their
roles in WH40K.

Given this, some of us come up with options for units based on 40K info
which they don't have in E40K, and try to find reasonable points costs.
If you don't like this, that's OK - but I'm curious how you can say
"there's no correlation between 40K and E40K" when they go so far as to
point out the reasoning behind firefight range is that that's the range
of a bolter in 40K!
Look at "assault" - higher assault value, shorter firing range. Why?
because that's how assault troops are equipped in WH40K.
Marines get "stubborn" and "rapid fire" in E40K and, look, they just
happen to have a special rule in WH40K where marines can re-roll failed
morale checks and can shoot twice if they dont move.
  
Also, just because a unit is great in one game and you think it sucks in
another is not support for whether the systems correspond. I think
titans are pointless in WH40K, but I like 'em in Epic. Termies are less
impressive in Epic but handy in WH40K. But what is their role? Termies
in WH40K are what they are becaue they're hard to kill. So in E40K they
get "save". Land Raiders have twin-linked LC's in WH40K, good for
blasting tanks and hard characters, so in E40K they get 2 AT shots.
 The reason their value changes is because of the environment more than
anything else. In WH40K dreads are tougher and have longer ranged guns
than about anything else in the game. In E40K, they still are tougher
than infantry and still have long-ranged weapons, but there are much
bigger and nastier things out there now, so they are quite the
dominating centerpiece that they are in WH40K.The designers didn't
always make their reasoning so obvious, so we like to twiddle with the
system and see what else works...

You may be distressed to learn there have been many units added by this
list based on WH40K, home-brewed units, and <gasp> the previous edition
of Epic which has less to do with the new one than WH40K does IMO.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but when adding/changing/tweaking
things for Epic 40,000, IMO Warhammer 40,000 is by _far_ the most
appropriate place to pull from. The game and it's units are _the_ source
material for Epic, so of course that's where people are going to look.
The previous edition of Epic is also a valid source to consider, as
that's where many of us came from also, but both are a good starting
place. Many of the tanks and things for WH40K first appeared in Epic 1st
or 2nd ed anyway, so they 've been mixing the two for some time.

Sorry about the length, but half of the posts on this list are about
adding or changing units based on something, or filling in something
that's "missing", and the statements at the top of this post just set me
off. And I'm usually the "Codex-Nazi":
"Use what's in the book, damnit!"

Chris Miller
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>
Received on Wed Aug 27 1997 - 16:14:25 UTC