Re: [Epic] Uncheesy detachments

From: John Chapman <john_at_...>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:58:08 +1100 (EST)

> ---------> How on earth did the Chaos player ever get trolls to go
> anywhere with a 10cm move and stupidity rules which meant that half the
> game they went on "advance" and only moved 10 cm? - unless you were kind
> enough to place those objectives on his side of the table... : )
> Minotaurs are fine, but not especially hard to kill. The eldar CC
> specialists still stomped them most of the time, and the ELdar, if
> anyone, had no problem delivering overpowered CC troops to the right
> place.
        Well the trolls only took the objectives on his side of the board :).
Still for basically 250 points you have a unit which is enough to hold and
objective for pretty much all of a <5 turn game - unaided. Maybe we played
differently to everyone else but the trend for objectives was 3 fairly close
to each sides set up line and 2 vaguely middlish. The trolls were usually used
to handle the ones close to his side. One or two moves at 10 cm were the most
required. Objectives also tended to be in buildings or forests. Well I tried
the in the open for a while but (whn not playing with battlegroups) the
appearance of chaos warlords with barrage missiles trained me out of that.
        Minotaurs - well scorpions really kicked the crap out of them - or
anyone else for that matter. Trolls were the favoured method of dealing with
SSs (well whatever was left after the plague etc etc which usually dealt with
at least 1-2 units + some collateral damage. In fact that card was why I hated
spirit hosts. You just couldnt defend the key warlock from it - at least till
snap fire - at which point the average 4-6 Thawks went up to 8-9 with 3-4
dummies. I hated playing 'pick the full hawk'.). It took odds of about 3-1 for
these troops to take down scorps. Funnily 250 points of troll were needed to
do 150 points of SS. If he could get odds like that he'd do it. The scorps and
about half the trolls would die - (and about half the trolls would come back).
If I could get 300 points of scorps onto 250 trolls things were better :). As
to banshees/harleys - 2-1 odds were usually more than enough and one bunch ofa
 trolls/mins were enough for 2 CC squads (it came down to initiative pretty much
).The scorpions were the only really problematic eldar CC troop. They had
a long history of being chaos card victims and suffering from the plague
wind (damn magnus and mortarion):).

> --------> Yep, the cards made the difference pretty often in CC. (Ack -
> that stupid growth card...)
        That and burnng bodies which forced me to spread out (and risk being
ganged up on) or stick together and lose a bunch of guys at once. And you
never knew if it was there or not......

> Well that's a new one - massed chaos tarantulas? I still think the
> pop-up factor would win it for the eldar, - along with a big mobile
> assault force, but that is something I haven't seen before.
        Hmm well 300 points of falcons was worth 4 VP and would kill 3 T's per
turn. 300 POints of T's would give 15 shots (just in FF) for 5 hits and 2-3
kills on falcons (oh yeah the T's were only worth 3Vps). We played pop ups were
all made at the start of the FF phase so the order of shooting became important.
 I guess the falcons were more able to get a local superiority than the T's
but there were plenty of cases where convenient cover for pop ups wasnt
available. Allowing the falcons to be hit by first AND advance fire was a
losing proposition. Tempests could sit back out of range but using them to
kill tarantulas was such a waste......
        I tried jet bike charges as well. If I moved second it wasnt TOO bad.
1 unit of jetbikes could about wipe out a tarantula unit. (Bikes charge 1-2
get killed on way in and then maybe a third killed by advance fire from the
remainder). However moving second was asking for the bikes to be ganged up
on by lurking CCers.

> --------> The big flaws in the Chaos marine army locally were a lack of
> range (50cm tops for CSM's) and a reliance on easily-killed transport
> vehicles (which also lacked offensive capability) to get anywhere.
        Umm Tarantulas , LR's and titans. Thats an awful lot at 75 and theres
not a huge amount of 100cm stuff out there (and all was expensive). 75 was also
quite enough with decent positioning. POint for point chaos marines really kicked regular marines and their gun was one of the better 50cm ones around.

> as I think 3 on a side was the most we saw - still enough to move a lot
> of marines, but not insane. Land raiders were handy for chaos just to
> get some decent ranged shots with a -2 save mod, decent armor, and
> transport capability, though a little pricy. The plague towers were
        4-6 was more average for THawks here. 1-2 Rhino units and rarely
land raiders. It was more than enough most times. 3 Mainly troll held objectives
 1-2 taken by the slower stuff and 1-3 by Thawks. At the price of wrecking his
marines on turn 2-3 the standard number of objectives he could hold was 4-7.
If you got it to 4 you would win. In a 4000pt game (or was it 3500) 6-7 and
maybe even 5 would be enough depending on how much 1-2 rewards (heck the
vortex one had nearly a 50-50 or doing a titan. Given the size of the
template and the titan it could scatter and still often hit) had done plus
the incidental damage done by his attacks. Maybe I sucked but I think I was
winning about 1 in 5 vs this army and I tried damn near everything.

> slower than slugs, but at least you could use cards to save them (and
> the troops inside) until the Eldar titan w/psycannon got a line of
> sight.
        Never saw any of the demon engines with the exception of doom wings.

> Against orks & imperials you had a pretty good game, but against
> eldar it was almost always a lopsided win in 3 turns or less (for the
> eldar). Squats I didnt play enough to see a trend, and 'nids I ddin't
> either, though it seemed like they had easy access to psychic attacks.
        His constant taking of Mortarion and the Death guard always screwed the
orks and imperials right up. TOo many troops to spread around meant whole
clans /companies broke (heck virtually wiped out...) with the use of one card.
That was sad. Seeing a large woods go up in flames from buring bodies and
wipe out the whole goff clan (sheltering from a Barrage Missile) was also
pretty sad as well.

        Sigh - that was long winded.
Received on Thu Jan 01 1970 - 00:00:00 UTC

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