Re: [Epic] Rants. Was SM/TL vs E40K unit costs

From: Chris Miller <ironstar_at_...>
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:17:11 -0600

>> It's a better looking game with banners & such, but if you have
>> them people will try to use that to justify sniping the special units.
>> So you can either allow this (bad game), delete all banners and
>> decoration (bad looking), or just outlaw it thru a rule and leave the
>> banners etc. in (good for game, good for mini's).
>>
>> Chris Miller
>
>Do you play ANY non GW games?
-----------> Yes. Lots. What's your point? Does playing other games make one
more of an authority on GW stuff?
>
>I play micro armor, used to play LOTS of micro armor.
-------> good for you. I don't right now. I play ASL( and all the various
add-ons for SL before it) for my tactical WW2 fix, and I'd say it's at least
as concerned with minute details as any microarmor-based rules set. So what?
 Lossing a command
>unit in a WWII game is MUCH worse than in WH40K, but no set of rules
>that I know off prevents you for firing at the command elements if they
>are out in sight.
------> Right. And I bet most micro armor players, faced with a wave of
infnatry or tanks approaching their platoon, wouldn't try and defeat the
rules by targeting a particular tank or squad half the battlefield away just
because they know it's the unit commander, ignoring the immedeate threat to
themselves.

 The problem is that in WH40K the a "special" figure
>can, in most cases, eat a squad for lunch.
------>Problem? Most GW games are this way, including RT and every edition
of fantasy. It should not be a surprise to anyone who's been playing since
then. The surprise would be if it changed at some point. I thought your
complaint was about not shooting them at will.

  Most command vehicles in the
>real world are not even armed.
------> Sure. Not in the 40K universe, though. The stuff with the guns is
more interesting to most people. How many German WW2 players leave out the
Panthers, Tigers, and Tiger 2's? Not many.
 A commander should be directing the
>fight, not be the main point of the army. In E40K you get close to that
>effect. The effect of having the commander close by is you get
>"Stuborn" and get to re-roll CC results. The command elements, are, in
>general, not all that powerful of detachments. This means that blowing
>them away is a pain, but not a battle looser.
-------> Yes, and in that respect E40K is closer to reality. Your opinion of
what a commander should do however, is not applicable to WH40K.

  I have seen WH40K games
>be called because the captian got killed.
------> Yeah, there are poeple way too wrapped up in "herohammer", no
argument there. Goes back to my "Target their Baby" approach.
>
>"That figure just blasted the whole of my left flank, and I can't shoot
>at him because there are 5 grunts that can't hit the broad side of a
>barn in front of him?" The whole of characters as god like super
>fighters is bad for the game, I don't care how good it looks.

---------> It's bad for a certain type of game. You assume your guys on the
ground are watching the guy in back and not the guys in front of him coming
their way, and know exactly where the explosions are coming from.Maybe all
they see is a 5-man squad coming towards them amidst a whole bunch of
explosions. How often are troops going to shoot over one squad's head to hit
someone behind them?
   I'm not thrilled with the way some people play it, but GW sells a hell of
a lot of figures and there's a lot of people who've played it for years who
aren't teenyboppes attracted by the shiny bits anymore.Are there things I
don't like? Sure. But this isn't _supposed_ to be a reflection of reality.
They don't claim that it is. The rifles have pistol ranges for pete's sake!
Trying to apply modern miltary doctrine to this game is just going to piss
you off 'cause it ain't going to work. Yes, characters are far more powerful
than Rank-n-file, unlike any other historical wargame. It is, however, very
much like RPG's and fantasy novels & movies, which is where their stuff
comes from. The heroes make the difference just like Star Wars, Star Trek,
and a lot of other Sci-Fi too. Kampgruppe Peiper shouldn't be your model,
Return of the Jedi is closer to how things work here...

Chris Miller

>
Received on Thu Mar 05 1998 - 06:17:11 UTC