Re: [Epic] Epic 40K Orders

From: Howard Liu <h2liu_at_...>
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 11:56:45 -0800

>The reason Net Epic was asked to move off the list was because of the
>volume of
>mail generated by contributors to the product. Once the product is finished,
>it will almost certainly be welcome on the list again, providing that the
>amount
>of mail generated because of it isn't overly large.

Well, I recall Agro pointing out that NetEpic would have been okay if the
list had only been tweaking the rules, but now it's a whole new game, and
should be moved off. And there were at least two "I agrees." Epic40K is
much more drastic a makeover, and no one is seriously suggesting that it be
moved off. Based on the manner in which the move was proposed, I think it
fair to say that NetEpic was driven off the Epic list. And regarding the
volume of posts... <melodrama> they complain that we rant more about GW
than talk about the game and they complain that the sheer volume of posts
about tweaking the game is flooding their mailboxes. What's the list
supposed to do? Grind over the optimal Titan weapons fit and anti-swarming
strategy until the final trump? </melodrama>

>Secondly, we all knew that Epic40K was (and is) going to be a completely
>different game from Space Marine. If you are complaining just because it's not
>the same as Space Marine, all I have to say is... well, duh! Army selection
>bears more resemblance to 40K than to Space Marine; so what? We already
>knew as
>much. Titan weapons choices are different; again, so what? What counts is
>whether you can have fun playing the game. There's no reason why you couldn't
>play Space Marine with your old group of friends, and, after looking at
>Epic40K
>and playing it a couple of times and deciding whether it's a fun game, find a
>new group of friends who are starting to play it and join them. Or your
>current
>group might decide both games are enjoyable. The key point here is to judge
>Epic40K based on experience of whether it's a fun game, not on how well you
>think it compares to Space Marine. Rules problems and abuses can always be
>taken care of by choosing your gaming partners well and by using house rules.

This is all true, but...

The fact that Titan weapons have been lumped together, while Demolishers
and Leman Russes are separate tanks, is like a reminder to Epic players
that their game is the second (or third, or fourth) favorite child.

A number of changes sound like they have been for the worse.

First, a full defense of the army cards. The army cards were a good way of
providing balance to army creation. While not foolproof, considering that
you could buy all Thunderhawks as support cards, or all Wind Rider hosts as
companies, they generally struck a pretty good balance, forcing players to
buy reasonable-looking core forces as the basis of each company. Like
units were lumped with like units, just as batteries of similar artillery
pieces are combined into a single unit. (Hence abstraction, but GW started
abstracting from the wrong end). Sentinels should be grouped into their
own unit, not attached to an infantry force individually, as in Paul's
army. The new, variable unit sizes bespeaks a lack of any higher-level
organization. In Space Marine, psykers and other special troops were doled
out in what I viewed as the right proportion, one to a company. Now, it
looks as if an Epic army, instead of looking like an army organized along
regimental lines, will look like a collection of self-contained, personal
armies, each with its own psyker. I always justified 40K armies,
characters aside, by theorizing that they were small raiding parties, or
small, specially chosen strike forces, selected especially for a certain
task. Now, it looks like those raiding parties and strike forces will be
the basis of every 300 man battle. In short, creating an army for Epic
scale, small as it is, using the Warhammer 40K method of unit creation is
unrealistic and inappropriate.

Others: Close combat is even more important than it used to be. I've never,
ever liked GW's obsession with hand-to-hand in the 41st millenium. It's
even more inappropriate in Epic. This ties right in with decreasing the
ranges on weapons - they were plenty short as it was. And if there was
ever an obsession to rival the fixation with hand-to-hand, it was psychics.
Now, you can have a psyker in every company (?), and they use something
called "Fate Cards." I hope that GW didn't have the chutzpah to introduce
a scaled-down version of Warhammer Battle Magic to Epic. And finally,
they're releasing it as another $70 boxed set; GW's refusal to sell the
Epic rulebooks alone has always struck me like a slap in the face to
veteran gamers. What about people who have buildings and unwanted Marine
armies left over from Adeptus Titanicus, Space Marine 1st edition, Space
Marine 2nd edition, and Titan Legions?

On that note, does anyone want to buy everything but the rulebooks, rulers
and dice from me for about $50 + shipping? San Diego, CA, USA would be the
base point for shipping.


Howard
Received on Thu Mar 06 1997 - 19:56:45 UTC