Re: [Epic] Re: week old stuff

From: Renaud Delhaye <rde_at_...>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:06:27 +0200

>Due to the system crashing a week or so ago, I have acouple of posts
>relating to the eldar pop up debate (debacle?) which don't appear to have
>made it through...

The same for me.

>Have we all checked our rule books and determined that pop ups are a
>movement action and not a shooting action and as such that they happen in
>the movement phase and not in the shooting phase?

This is what I answered to one of your post:

>At 11:17 AM 4/4/97 +0200, you wrote:
>>Agro wrote:
>>
>>>>Really, Agro, what would be the _real_ difference between a unit with
>>>>pop-up capability and another one if you can shoot it whenever you want?
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, we've always figured the difference was that you had to be on FF to
>>>shoot a skimmer that was popping up from behind cover...
>>>
>>>This makes a big difference to most armies (the squats don't worry about it,
>>>of course).
>>
>>Let's see. During the FF phase,

<SNIP arguments, apparently impossible to understand>

>Renaud, you may remember how I complimented you on your English - I take it
>back! I don't follow much ofthis at all...

Sorry. I'll try to do better next time :-( So, I still don't see the "big
difference" it makes and the real advantage of pop-up in your gaming group
(do you simply mean that the remaining advantage is: models willing to fire
at skimmers can't move?). Anyway, it was not the most important argument in
my post. Forget it.

>>>>And I think I know why "the guys" do it that way: they understand pop-up
>>>>capability is one of the most powerful asset of the game and are afraid of
>>>>it.
>>>
>>>
>>>I think it is more like they feel that "if you can shoot at me, I should be
>>>able to shoot at you".
>>
>>Hmm. In this principle, I feel something like "everything is happening at
>>the same time during a fire phase". It's obviously not the case, as then,
>>destroyed models would have the right to fire before being removed (there
>>are some games using this principle, but not EPIC). Moreover, being able to
>>shoot at popping-up models before they effectively fire is just the
>>opposite of the spirit of the rules: popping-up units benefit from
>>_surprise_ and firing at them before they fire means you _predicted_ their
>>apparition.
>>
>>Terrific house rule, meaning every soldier is a Warlock, IMHO.
>>
>
>
>Well, actually we interpret "pop up" as a movement action, not as a shooting
>action and thus we assume that units pop up in the movement phase not in the
>FF phase. (Titan Legions supports this contention by putting the rules on
>pop up in the movement section with the other exceptions to normal movement
>- transports, flyers and snapfire weapons.)

Movement action? However:

1. accordinf to the rules, units pop up during the fire phase and they are
targeted by enemies firing back during the fire phase.
2. they pop up because they want to fire, not for anything else.
3. even if the pop up rules are in the movement section of the TL rulebook
(it was probably not intented), I think that this is a very "liberal"
interpretation of the rules.
4. The pop up rules emphazise the element of surprise.

>No house rule, no warlocks, just looking at pop ups as movement...

This IS definitely a house rule. I think most of the people on this list
would agree on that. And for the soldiers not being Warlocks, even if
pop-up is occuring in the movement phase, it remains that enemy units must
predict the appearance of skimmers to shoot at them before they can fire.
Not very realistic, admit it...

>Do you allow snapfire weapons to target skimmers on pop up?

You mean "before the skimmers can shoot", I guess? Then, no. But wait a
minute: if pop-up does really occur during the movement phase, only the
snap-fire units can target them :-) !

>Do you require Warlocks to take line of sight for their psychic powers from
>the ground since they don't pop up in the movement phase?

Yes.

>Agro
>

Renaud
Received on Fri Apr 11 1997 - 08:06:27 UTC