Re: [Epic] [E40k] A question...

From: Miller, Chris <CMiller_at_...>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:23:00 -0500

 -
> To summarize my beef: pop ups allow me to stay hidden until I choose
>to come out (after most of your firing is over) and I can fire at you
>regardless of what's in the way.

I agree with your beef 100%. I play only orks, so I have only ever been
on
the receiving end of pop-ups, so I know exactly how it feels to be shot
at
without having a chance to shoot back (in game terms, not real life ;).

The only point I was trying to make is that there is not a problem with
the *mechanics* of the rule. i.e. The rule is written clearly, works
smoothly, and does not create new rules holes; it is simply an exception
to the normal LOS rules.

Despite your assertion, the "problem" is due entirely to the fact that
you (in this case, there are many who agree with you) simply do not like
the rule. The reasons vary; some people think it's unrealistic, others
think its "too far over the top", others think it's unfair. These are
very legitimit complaints (except that I don't think it's unbalancing
since I feel skimmers pay for this ability). I'm just saying that
these are questions of personal taste, not rules mechanics.

A rules problem is, for example, when people are trying to figure out
when to apply BMs (before or after halving FP for assault orders) or
how much a farseer costs. They occur because the rules are vague
and/or incomplete. The fact that pop-ups effectively ignore LOS is
very clearly written in the rules. IMO, the problems people have
with pop-ups are more akin to the debate on whether bug titans are
worth the points. There are interesting arguments on both sides, but
no right and wrong answers; it all comes down to a matter of personal
taste and playing style. That's the only point I wanted to make.

Personally, I thik that if I'm willing to accept that an eldar
dreadnought is manned by the spirit of a dead space elf housed in a
big crystal, it seems perfectly reasonable that the eldar could
design lasers that shoot around corners. After all, it is the grim,
dark, non-euclidian future.

David

 ---> I understand the distinction you're making. The only comment I
have to add is that you are referring to the clarity of the rules - OK,
lord knows they have problems - I am saying "clear" isn't neccessarily
"good". Now if the vague areas could be cleared up, then at least we
would all be starting from the same place, but I think the value of the
rules is also a valid subject for discussion. Once we're all -clear- on
"rule x" at least we can play without lengthy negotiations first, but
afterwards if something is out of whack, it still needs to be resolved.
        Example from the 2nd ed - Tzeentch Horrors. A marine stand kills one in
HTH. It divides. OK, am I in base ctct with one of the new guys, both,
or neither? If I am touching, do we fight again now or wait til next
turn? We had raging debates on this just about every time we played.
Thankfully, it seems to be gone in this edition, but I'm sure we'll see
some similar things.
        If they were just doing a "revision" then clearing up things is the
main focus, but with a whole new edition, the rules themselves work
differently. I thought it was something they could have reworked.
        As far as fluff / background: maybe it's a warp-weapon which shoots
thru buildings... no, then they don't have to expose themsleves & no
armor saves...ah, well, it's just a goofy , mystic , psychic Eldar
weapon.
        I've played mostly Orks recently too, and the loss of all their special
stuff is annoying, to say the least - NO MORE GUTBUSTER --GAK!!! but I
think they'll still do OK. There aren't that many Eldar around...

                Chris Miller
Received on Fri May 02 1997 - 17:23:00 UTC