Re: [Epic] Re:Trolls n Minotaurs

From: Scott Shupe <shupes_at_...>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:11:38 -0400

Elias Tiliakos wrote:
>
> >> I'm already having nightmares about entire daemon
> >> detachments consisting of only greater daemons...
> >
> >Nah, cost too much, will get shot to pieces on the way in. For
> >Nightmares, try a Daemon unit consisting of Cavalry....
>
> (Rant ON)
>
> I don't know, GD's have a 6 armor, plus a save. Ok, ok, yeah, there
> are death rays and AT shots, but both Lords of Change _and_
> Bloodthirsters have a 25cm move, and are both skimmers and infantry.
> 75cm charge, anyone? That's as good if not better than charging
> Eldar Aspects, and on a one to one basis, the GD's will slaughter
> the Aspects (and most everyone else, including the Tyranids).

        Yeah, but 1 GD doesn't cost the same as 1 Aspect. Warlord
titans slaughter Aspects on a one-to-one basis as well. And Aspects
don't get hosed in firefights.

        The sole pupose of Greater Daemons is to kick-ass in close
combat. But it's all they can do. That's why you suppress the hell
out of them and watch them not move.

> I mean, compared to a Lord of Change, the Tyranid Hive tyrant costs
> 50 points, as opposed to 27,

        The Tyrant is also a HQ unit. A HQ Lord of Change costs 52
points. Of course, Tyrants don't come in a non-HQ flavor, but the
'nids get tons of cheap, nasty HTH beasties so I'm not exactly crying
for them.

> doesn't move as far, gets a whole
> whopping 2 firepower (sarcasm), and has only a 6 assault factor.
> I don't know how these two would face up in WH40K, but even still,
> the Lord of Change (heck, GDs in general) are _extremely_ cheap
> compared to other armies' "big boys".

        So what's your point? Every army has it's strengths. Chaos
doesn't get very good war engines and has a very limited selection of
tanks, PLUS the number of armor detachments you can have in your
army is limited, which is not true for anyone else.

> Ok, the GD's might get hurt
> a little in a firefight. Yeah, right. Even if the opposing
> force can bring 30 firepower to bear against the GD's, that's
> hmm, let's see, 15 dice at 6+, so that's about what, 2-3 hits
> on average? And then a save? ok, 1-2 dead GD's per firefight.

        That's not a firefight, that's just plain shooting. The
firefight is when 2 dets are within 15cm of each other - in this case,
1 stand of regular IG grunts (FP of 1) gets a +4 bonus on the daemon
detachment (FP 0, 1 is more than 4 times 0). There would be other
mods, but they don't really compare to the +4. Whoever loses the die
roll (most likely the daemons) takes 1 hit (not a big deal) and is
BROKEN. Which means the daemon detachment has to retreat and cannot
make an assault move until it rallies in the end phase. ie, Not until
next turn. This is from 1 stand of joes with a FP of one. That's
not a big deal?

        And as far as normal shooting goes, the casualties caused
are irrelvant. The Blast Markers placed are not. If you stick a
measly 3 BMs on a daemon detachment, it has a half chance of simply
NOT moving in the assault phase. Or even the movement phase. And
if you devote any kind of FP at them, chances are you'll be placing
more then 3 BMs. Meanwhile Tyranids get to ignore those BMs when
it comes to moving.

> Oh well. Rant mode off. Sorry about that.

        S'OK, but I think you're overestimating the effectiveness
of GDs.

Scott
shupes_at_...
Received on Mon May 19 1997 - 14:11:38 UTC